Blessed Trinity- Perfection Of God

[Mikaele]

If the Persons in the Holy Trinity are distinct, then how can they be One and not parts of God? and each Person is perfect, then are there 3 perfections or one?

[Nihil Obstat]

Athanasian Creed

1. Whosoever will be saved, before all things it is necessary that he hold the catholic faith;

2. Which faith except every one do keep whole and undefiled, without doubt he shall perish everlastingly.

3. And the catholic faith is this: That we worship one God in Trinity, and Trinity in Unity;

4. Neither confounding the persons nor dividing the substance.

5. For there is one person of the Father, another of the Son, and another of the Holy Spirit.

6. But the Godhead of the Father, of the Son, and of the Holy Spirit is all one, the glory equal, the majesty coeternal.

7. Such as the Father is, such is the Son, and such is the Holy Spirit.

8. The Father uncreated, the Son uncreated, and the Holy Spirit uncreated.

9. The Father incomprehensible, the Son incomprehensible, and the Holy Spirit incomprehensible.

10. The Father eternal, the Son eternal, and the Holy Spirit eternal.

11. And yet they are not three eternals but one eternal.

12. As also there are not three uncreated nor three incomprehensible, but one uncreated and one incomprehensible.

13. So likewise the Father is almighty, the Son almighty, and the Holy Spirit almighty.

14. And yet they are not three almighties, but one almighty.

15. So the Father is God, the Son is God, and the Holy Spirit is God;

16. And yet they are not three Gods, but one God.

17. So likewise the Father is Lord, the Son Lord, and the Holy Spirit Lord;

18. And yet they are not three Lords but one Lord.

19. For like as we are compelled by the Christian verity to acknowledge every Person by himself to be God and Lord;

20. So are we forbidden by the catholic religion to say; There are three Gods or three Lords.

21. The Father is made of none, neither created nor begotten.

22. The Son is of the Father alone; not made nor created, but begotten.

23. The Holy Spirit is of the Father and of the Son; neither made, nor created, nor begotten, but proceeding.

24. So there is one Father, not three Fathers; one Son, not three Sons; one Holy Spirit, not three Holy Spirits.

25. And in this Trinity none is afore or after another; none is greater or less than another.

26. But the whole three persons are coeternal, and coequal.

27. So that in all things, as aforesaid, the Unity in Trinity and the Trinity in Unity is to be worshipped.

28. He therefore that will be saved must thus think of the Trinity.

29. Furthermore it is necessary to everlasting salvation that he also believe rightly the incarnation of our Lord Jesus Christ.

30. For the right faith is that we believe and confess that our Lord Jesus Christ, the Son of God, is God and man.

31. God of the substance of the Father, begotten before the worlds; and man of substance of His mother, born in the world.

32. Perfect God and perfect man, of a reasonable soul and human flesh subsisting.

33. Equal to the Father as touching His Godhead, and inferior to the Father as touching His manhood.

34. Who, although He is God and man, yet He is not two, but one Christ.

35. One, not by conversion of the Godhead into flesh, but by taking of that manhood into God.

36. One altogether, not by confusion of substance, but by unity of person.

37. For as the reasonable soul and flesh is one man, so God and man is one Christ;

38. Who suffered for our salvation, descended into hell, rose again the third day from the dead;

39. He ascended into heaven, He sits on the right hand of the Father, God, Almighty;

40. From thence He shall come to judge the quick and the dead.

41. At whose coming all men shall rise again with their bodies;

42. and shall give account of their own works.

43. And they that have done good shall go into life everlasting and they that have done evil into everlasting fire.

44. This is the catholic faith, which except a man believe faithfully he cannot be saved.

[Guest]

This is what I'm trying to show my mormon friend...

[Chamomile]

[quote name='Mikaele' timestamp='1302061969' post='2226329']
If the Persons in the Holy Trinity are distinct, then how can they be One and not parts of God? and each Person is perfect, then are there 3 perfections or one?
[/quote]


For the first part of your question, the Creed Nihil posted does a wonderful job of describing the mystery. I think one of the key words of this is that the Trinity is "incomprehensible." So they are distinct and they are One. It is completely beyond our understanding - though we can describe it in beautiful ways sometimes - because being created by God, our minds our obviously less than Him and cannot contain His fullness. At some point, we have to accept the gift of faith to see this, and once we do accept that, God will also enlighten us further regarding these mysteries (so pray for your Mormon friend, Delivery Boy!)

For the second part of your question, there is only one perfection expressed in three Divine Persons. Perfection is unity and wholeness and therefore, can't be divided. The perfection is expressed in different ways among the Persons of the Trinity, is how I see it.

[Lil Red]

wow, i am glad we don't use the Athansian Creed at Mass

[Nihil Obstat]

I wish we said it before Mass started.

[Lil Red]

[quote name='Nihil Obstat' timestamp='1302109414' post='2226408']
I wish we said it before Mass started.
[/quote]
why?

[Nihil Obstat]

[quote name='Lil Red' timestamp='1302111209' post='2226417']
why?
[/quote]
I think that the average Catholic right now does not know or understand these things, and has made no serious effort to do so. Well let's force them. Mass isn't about being comfortable. Show them what they don't know. Show them that it's important.
How many Catholics now don't know what you're talking about if you mention the dual nature of Christ? How many can articulate with any clarity the idea of the Trinity? This just isn't an acceptable situation, and we should be doing something about it.

[dairygirl4u2c]

the trinity is suppose to be a mystery, and some dare say a paradox.
all one yet not one etc etc.
the son is god the father is god but the father is not the sun. and it's wrong to say they collectively are 'god' as the way to explain how they're all god but not all the same.
im not sure if one could call the trinity, 'god'. i suppose one could.

[kafka]

[quote name='Mikaele' timestamp='1302061969' post='2226329']
If the Persons in the Holy Trinity are distinct, then how can they be One and not parts of God? [/quote]
The One Nature of God is Processional. The Procession is 'what makes' the Persons distinct. In other words the Procession is the distinction of Persons.

Edited April 7, 2011 by kafka

[LouisvilleFan]

[quote name='Mikaele' timestamp='1302061969' post='2226329']
If the Persons in the Holy Trinity are distinct, then how can they be One and not parts of God? and each Person is perfect, then are there 3 perfections or one?
[/quote]

Perfection is in the fact that God is Three Persons -- not merely One autocratic ruler or three distinct and separate gods competing for our attention. God is Love, and Love cannot exist without community, so it is perfect that God is Three Persons sharing One Divine Essence.

[Fiat_Voluntas_Tua]

This would not be as much of an issue if people read the Neoplatonists. Aquinas's discussion of this is almost spot on with what they said.