Unrepentant Venial Sin

[dairygirl4u2c]

i know there's been debate at points before, about whether unrepentant venial sin causes one to go to hell.

i was thinking about it, and i think i concluded that for the mortal v venial sin distinction to mean anything, it would necessarily be the case that unrepentant venial sin could not cause one to go to hell.

mortal sin unrepentant sends one to hell. vential sin unrepentant sends one to hell... ?
repentant mortal sin doesn't send one to hell, just like unrepentant mortal sin doesn't send one to hell.
if it sin regardless of which variety will send one to hell, and repentence regardless of variety will not... why make a distinction at all? unless unrepentant venial sin does not send one to hell.

i suppose there could be a distinction between 'persistent unrepentatnt venial sin' and 'nonpersistent venial sin'. the former would esesntial be treated like a mortal sin, and hte later would make the distinction meaningful for at least those situations.
one could then call persistent venial sin essetnially a mortal sin.
or, is it simply that venial sins no matter the variety won't send one to hell? if that's the case, why not indulge to one's heart's desire? does that mean they aren't saved to begin with, to even try to get around the rules that way, even if they otherwise wouldn't do a mortal sin?
regardless of one's intention and whether they'd actually do it... they could at least theoretically do venial sins all day everyday and get away with it?

just some thoughts. critique away.

[CatherineM]

I'm an unrepentant Yankee fan. Some people would say that will land me in Hell.

[Ed Normile]

Yeah, especially us unrpentant Pirate fans !

ed

[AudreyGrace]

The Eucharist rids one of venial sin. Idk if that has anything to do with this exactly.. but yeah...
I mean, it's never good to repeat venial sins intentionally. When you do that, it becomes a mortal sin. We must always strive to avoid all sin, venial sin tends to occur due to original sin (things we sort of can't help).
So I'm not really sure if there's such a thing as "unrepented" venial sin.

[Nihil Obstat]

[quote name='AudreyGrace' timestamp='1302041755' post='2226261']
The Eucharist rids one of venial sin. Idk if that has anything to do with this exactly.. but yeah...
I mean, it's never good to repeat venial sins intentionally. [b]When you do that, it becomes a mortal sin.[/b] We must always strive to avoid all sin, venial sin tends to occur due to original sin (things we sort of can't help).
So I'm not really sure if there's such a thing as "unrepented" venial sin.
[/quote]
Not necessarily. Simple repetition wouldn't, for instance, change a minor sin into grave matter.

[AudreyGrace]

[quote name='Nihil Obstat' timestamp='1302041860' post='2226263']
Not necessarily. Simple repetition wouldn't, for instance, change a minor sin into grave matter.
[/quote]


Correct. I said "intentionally", as if someone were to lie about something trivial on a regular basis, knowing it was probably wrong and that there is a better way to go about a situation yet still chooses the trivial lie with the expectation that the Eucharist will redeem them. In other words, taking advantage of the Eucharist and not striving towards a holier life (omission).

[Nihil Obstat]

[quote name='AudreyGrace' timestamp='1302042202' post='2226265']
Correct. I said "intentionally", as if someone were to lie about something trivial on a regular basis, knowing it was probably wrong and that there is a better way to go about a situation yet still chooses the trivial lie with the expectation that the Eucharist will redeem them. In other words, taking advantage of the Eucharist and not striving towards a holier life (omission).
[/quote]
It would potentially be a sin of presumption to do so, but we're not talking about a venial sin becoming mortal, per se. We're then dealing with additional and separate sins.

[TeresaBenedicta]

Hm.

Venial sin does not completely sever one's relationship with God. It damages it, yes, but it does not completely sever it. So, if one dies with venial sin, they are still in relationship with God... albeit, damaged. How is that relationship restored fully? Purgatory.

...however, it might be that a true unrepentant venial sin [i]could[/i] be the sin against the Holy Spirit. If, upon one's death, one is so attached to that sin that it refuses to be purified from it, refuses to let go of it... But, then the sin keeping one from God is not the venial sin [i]per se[/i], but the refusal to repent.

[zalzan]

[quote name='TeresaBenedicta' timestamp='1302066958' post='2226345']
Hm.

Venial sin does not completely sever one's relationship with God. It damages it, yes, but it does not completely sever it. So, if one dies with venial sin, they are still in relationship with God... albeit, damaged. How is that relationship restored fully? Purgatory.

...however, it might be that a true unrepentant venial sin [i]could[/i] be the sin against the Holy Spirit. If, upon one's death, one is so attached to that sin that it refuses to be purified from it, refuses to let go of it... But, then the sin keeping one from God is not the venial sin [i]per se[/i], but the refusal to repent.
[/quote]

You know, as a Catholic is has always troubled me to see people reduce a relationship with Christ to something formulaic. When you read Paul's letters, you see that Grace is poured out abundantly, and that the assurance of our salvation comes not from our works but from God's Grace. Even the Catholic catechism is bluntly clear that we can merit nothing apart from the Grace of God. When we start counting our sins, the only result is despair..it is no different that Moses hitting the rock twice.. This is why Christ died for us. The New covenant is based on a promise from God in Christ that the old ways of scorecards are dead. Instead of relying on our own personal sin accounting practices, we are now under Grace, and must have faith that despite our weaknesses (i.e., venial sins), God's Grace is hounding us, showered on us abundantly, and we are secure in his promise. Never forget that Jesus' harshest condemnation was against the religious leaders who quantified everything devoid of Grace. For anyone in a position of feeling they are unsure about your relationship with Christ, please talk to your priest about it, and even consider engaging one as a regular spiritual director above and beyond confession. We all need guidance.

[Vincent Vega]

[quote name='zalzan' timestamp='1302696431' post='2228130']Even the Catholic catechism is bluntly clear that we can merit nothing apart from the Grace of God. When we start counting our sins, the only result is despair..it is no different that Moses hitting the rock twice.. This is why Christ died for us. The New covenant is based on a promise from God in Christ that the old ways of scorecards are dead. Instead of relying on our own personal sin accounting practices, we are now under Grace, and must have faith that despite our weaknesses (i.e., venial sins), God's Grace is hounding us, showered on us abundantly, and we are secure in his promise.
[/quote]
Are you from the South? It sounds like you've been hanging around Calvinist ecclesial communities is why I ask.

[havok579257]

[quote name='AudreyGrace' timestamp='1302042202' post='2226265']
Correct. I said "intentionally", as if someone were to lie about something trivial on a regular basis, knowing it was probably wrong and that there is a better way to go about a situation yet still chooses the trivial lie with the expectation that the Eucharist will redeem them. In other words, taking advantage of the Eucharist and not striving towards a holier life (omission).
[/quote]


initentionally doing a venial sin on a regular basis does not make it, can not make it into a mortal sin. lying about something small, a hundread times intentionally can not turn it into a mortal sin. one of the conditions of a mortal sin is that is must involve a grave matter. lying about something small can not be considered a grave matter.

[havok579257]

you may not want to repent venial sins in this life, but when you get to purgatory and can't move onto heaven until you repent all your sins, you will eventually repent. even if it takes you 1000 years, eventually you will repent.

[zalzan]

[quote name='USAirwaysIHS' timestamp='1302714244' post='2228173']
Are you from the South? It sounds like you've been hanging around Calvinist ecclesial communities is why I ask.
[/quote]

Not a Calvinist, Roman Catholic. Here is the Catholic Catechism in case you were wondering:

[b]2025 [/b]We can have merit in God's sight only because of God's free plan to associate man with the work of his grace. Merit is to be ascribed in the first place to the grace of God, and secondly to man's collaboration. Man's merit is due to God.

Not sure where you get the Calvinist notion.

[Vincent Vega]

[quote name='zalzan' timestamp='1302798125' post='2228659']
Not a Calvinist, Roman Catholic.
[/quote]
Question:
Do you believe that it is possible to reject God's Grace?

[Ash Wednesday]

[quote name='dairygirl4u2c' timestamp='1301532305' post='2224866']if that's the case, why not indulge to one's heart's desire? does that mean they aren't saved to begin with, to even try to get around the rules that way, even if they otherwise wouldn't do a mortal sin?
regardless of one's intention and whether they'd actually do it... they could at least theoretically do venial sins all day everyday and get away with it?
[/quote]

Sin can have a snowball effect, they aren't really things one should see as something you "get away" with. And in my personal experience, living life "just to avoid hell" brings little to no spiritual growth, and I don't think that is what God intends for us.

Also in my experience, I find that unchecked venial sin and indifference to it gradually deteriorates your relationship with God in a way where it puts you in a disposition where you become more prone be weaker to temptations, quicker to anger or despair, and in general start committing graver sins.