4588686 Posted March 16, 2011 Share Posted March 16, 2011 (edited) [quote name='Laudate_Dominum' timestamp='1300209570' post='2220900'] I don't think that this would address any real issues atm. Even if it were relevant to matters of resource scarcity and population stresses the countries that would have the technical and economic resources to develop such floating villages could surely use those resources for much more fruitful endeavors (wealthy counties tend to have declining populations these days anyway). I doubt this will be proposed in a UN population report any time soon. It seems kind of up there with colonizing the moon and Mars, which, while amesome and something that I'm into, doesn't really offer practical solutions to the overpopulation-related problems in the world here and now. There is enough arable land on the plane[u][b]t (hunger has more to do with sociology than productivity),[/b][/u] and it would be more practical and worthwhile to try and restore arable land in deserts or in places where topsoil has been eroded by industrial agriculture than to build sea platforms. I admit I haven't looked into any research on seasteading and am just guessing, but it really seems like a waste of time and money as a proposed solution to social and economic problems. What you describe makes me think of Dubai. I guess I'm wondering what your angle and argument is. What issues would the sea platforms address? [/quote] Amartya Sen ftw! Edited March 16, 2011 by Hasan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Laudate_Dominum Posted March 16, 2011 Share Posted March 16, 2011 [quote name='Sternhauser' timestamp='1300232063' post='2220986'] I don't know what he has to say, but I have this to say. High population density does not cause poverty. If it did, Hong Kong and Singapore would be destitute. And Kenya would be wealthy beyond reckoning. 36,500 people per square mile in Manila. 44,775 per square mile in Seoul. Where's the poverty in Seoul? Where are the tenements? Moon Village is a sight better than Manila's scenes. High population density does not cause poverty. State intervention and culture causes poverty. ~Sternhauser [/quote] The causes of poverty are complex. Overpopulation and poverty are related but quite distinct. Overpopulation and population density are not equivalent. Looking at population density alone does not tell you about the ratio of population to available sustainable resources. Acknowledging overpopulation does not mean that one is a eugenics enthusiast or "overpopulation nut." (I realize you didn't suggest this but I just need to throw this out there because it is a common attitude among Catholics in my experience.) Free trade, infrastructure (or lack thereof), modernized agriculture, political organization, etcetera, may very well make the difference between one place and another in spite of comparable geography and population densities. I don't like the blanket statements. This is starting to get at why I don't much care for the overpopulation concept to begin with. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
4588686 Posted March 16, 2011 Share Posted March 16, 2011 [quote name='Nihil Obstat' timestamp='1300208361' post='2220889'] As I said earlier, I think it would be a big step if we learned to utilize ocean space in the form of seasteading. I don't think this is out of the question, by a long shot. The key would be to construct large spaces for growing food crops and raising animals. They would probably have to run on a combination of wind and solar, with some coal backups, but they might be able to use geo-thermal if they're near thermal vents. Anyway, I wish it was being looked into more. [/quote] Sounds like a highly risky investment not likely to yield profits for decades to come. The sort of thing you need government funding for. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Laudate_Dominum Posted March 16, 2011 Share Posted March 16, 2011 [quote name='Hasan' timestamp='1300234304' post='2221002'] Amartya Sen ftw! [/quote] I'll woot to that! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nihil Obstat Posted March 16, 2011 Share Posted March 16, 2011 [quote name='Hasan' timestamp='1300234568' post='2221006'] Sounds like a highly risky investment not likely to yield profits for decades to come. The sort of thing you need government funding for. [/quote] About the first you are probably right. I cannot agree with the second. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Papist Posted March 16, 2011 Share Posted March 16, 2011 According to the U.N. Population Database, using the historically accurate low variant projection, the Earth's population will only add another billion people or so over the next thirty years, peaking around 8.02 billion people in the year 2040, and then it will begin to decline. Check their online database, [url="http://esa.un.org/unpp/"]http://esa.un.org/unpp/[/url] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sternhauser Posted March 16, 2011 Share Posted March 16, 2011 (edited) [quote name='Laudate_Dominum' timestamp='1300234549' post='2221005'] The causes of poverty are complex. Overpopulation and poverty are related but quite distinct. Overpopulation and population density are not equivalent. Looking at population density alone does not tell you about the ratio of population to available sustainable resources. Acknowledging overpopulation does not mean that one is a eugenics enthusiast or "overpopulation nut." (I realize you didn't suggest this but I just need to throw this out there because it is a common attitude among Catholics in my experience.) Free trade, infrastructure (or lack thereof), modernized agriculture, political organization, etcetera, may very well make the difference between one place and another in spite of comparable geography and population densities. I don't like the blanket statements. This is starting to get at why I don't much care for the overpopulation concept to begin with. [/quote] "Overpopulation" means "too many people." That begs the question, "too many people for what?" Too many people in a theatre, too many people in a car, too many people on a footbridge? Perhaps. But there is no such thing as "too many people, period." Misanthropes believe there are too many humans. The statement "too many people" has to be qualified. I despise the term "overpopulation." "Inefficiently-employed population," "indolent population," "undereducated population," and "economically stifled population" are more accurate terms. ~Sternhauser Edited March 16, 2011 by Sternhauser Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sternhauser Posted March 16, 2011 Share Posted March 16, 2011 [quote name='Hasan' timestamp='1300234135' post='2221001'] The Good Lord would much prefer mass death and destruction to something truly evil like condoms to maintain a stable population. [/quote] There's no lack of condoms out there, Hasan, and yes, God prefers natural processes to sin. I fail to see how condoms would prevent a plague. Or the [i]real[/i] cause of a war. I also fail to see how condoms would reduce the percentage of people killed by plagues and in wars. ~Sternhauser Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sternhauser Posted March 16, 2011 Share Posted March 16, 2011 The crop is harvested when the field is full of wheat, and when the tree is heavy with fruit. ~Sternhauser Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Laudate_Dominum Posted March 16, 2011 Share Posted March 16, 2011 (edited) [quote name='Papist' timestamp='1300237403' post='2221019'] According to the U.N. Population Database, using the historically accurate low variant projection, the Earth's population will only add another billion people or so over the next thirty years, peaking around 8.02 billion people in the year 2040, and then it will begin to decline. Check their online database, [url="http://esa.un.org/unpp/"]http://esa.un.org/unpp/[/url] [/quote] Nice. Here's some stuff you might like. [url="http://www.google.com/publicdata?ds=wb-wdi&ctype=l&strail=false&nselm=h&met_y=sp_dyn_tfrt_in&scale_y=lin&ind_y=false&rdim=country&idim=country:AUS:AUT:BEL:BIH:CAN:CHN:HRV:CZE:DNK:FIN:FRA:DEU:GRC:HUN:ITA:JPN:NLD:NOR:POL:PRT:ROM:RUS:SVK:ESP:SWE:CHE:UKR:GBR:USA&tstart=-315619200000&tunit=Y&tlen=48&hl=en&dl=en"]Google's nifty World Bank data interface.[/url] [url="http://data.worldbank.org/indicator/SP.DYN.TFRT.IN?cid=GPD_11"]The World Bank Data[/url] [media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hVimVzgtD6w[/media] [media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YpKbO6O3O3M[/media] http://www.gapminder.org/ Edited March 16, 2011 by Laudate_Dominum Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Laudate_Dominum Posted March 16, 2011 Share Posted March 16, 2011 This guy is kind of interesting too imo. [media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Dtbn9zBfJSs[/media] [media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dUJ_H0KSWhM[/media] [url="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uAXhKhBQdm0&playnext=1&videos=z-dHeCAlIGM&feature=mfu_in_order"]Part 2 and beyond...[/url] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Winchester Posted March 16, 2011 Share Posted March 16, 2011 Your face is an argument for population control. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maggyie Posted March 16, 2011 Share Posted March 16, 2011 Moon colonization. DO EEEEET NOW!!!!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Papist Posted March 16, 2011 Share Posted March 16, 2011 (edited) [quote name='Laudate_Dominum' timestamp='1300245042' post='2221060'] Nice. Here's some stuff you might like. [url="http://www.google.com/publicdata?ds=wb-wdi&ctype=l&strail=false&nselm=h&met_y=sp_dyn_tfrt_in&scale_y=lin&ind_y=false&rdim=country&idim=country:AUS:AUT:BEL:BIH:CAN:CHN:HRV:CZE:DNK:FIN:FRA:DEU:GRC:HUN:ITA:JPN:NLD:NOR:POL:PRT:ROM:RUS:SVK:ESP:SWE:CHE:UKR:GBR:USA&tstart=-315619200000&tunit=Y&tlen=48&hl=en&dl=en"]Google's nifty World Bank data interface.[/url] [url="http://data.worldbank.org/indicator/SP.DYN.TFRT.IN?cid=GPD_11"]The World Bank Data[/url] [url="http://www.gapminder.org/"]http://www.gapminder.org/[/url] [/quote] Nice! I have met many people that attended college in the 70s that were taught that ZPG[zero population growth] is vital for the existance of Earth. And is why they only had two children. The documentary [ [url="http://www.demographicbomb.com/"]http://www.demographicbomb.com/[/url] ] details that b/c of this overpopulation myth and ZPG movement, the world, especially Europe and Southeast Asia are suffering from NPG[negative population growth]. Japan's NPG is tragic. Many, many Japanese couples never have children, but as they get older they desire family, specially grandchildren. There is an actual business that an elderly couple can pay for children to be at thier home for a couple of hours pretending to be thier grandchildren. Very sad. Edited March 16, 2011 by Papist Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Winchester Posted March 16, 2011 Share Posted March 16, 2011 [quote name='Papist' timestamp='1300276949' post='2221126'] There is an actual business that an elderly couple can pay for children to be at thier home for a couple of hours pretending to be thier grandchildren. Very sad. [/quote] Wait, you pay kids to come over, break stuff and ask you for money? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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