Debra Little Posted March 14, 2011 Share Posted March 14, 2011 [quote name='Nihil Obstat' timestamp='1300062791' post='2220543'] Yes, in context that's what I meant. A perfect parish does exist in my mind though. [/quote] in my mind too Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Debra Little Posted March 14, 2011 Share Posted March 14, 2011 [quote name='Chamomile' timestamp='1300064360' post='2220549'] I can understand why you're upset. I often glance toward the crucifix during Mass There are some parishes I have problems just being in because I'm really sensitive to my surroundings and their influence on the spiritual atmosphere. Are you going to bring up the issue with the priest? Can you go somewhere else for Mass? [/quote] i look at at the Crucifix but what bugs me more than anything is the way that a lot of Catholic parishes have moved the Tabernacle to the back of the church. The whole point of having it in the middle is so we can visit and worship Jesus in the Blessed Sacrament. It's so disrespectful to shove Him in the back of the church! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Debra Little Posted March 14, 2011 Share Posted March 14, 2011 [quote name='Luigi' timestamp='1300076060' post='2220587'] Can you make it a Lenten sacrifice? One Sunday down, four to go. [/quote] No! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chamomile Posted March 16, 2011 Share Posted March 16, 2011 [quote name='Luigi' timestamp='1300076636' post='2220590'] Not give up disliking - patiently endure. If you gave up disliking, there would be no suffering involved. [/quote] I thought you meant make it a sacrifice to bring it up to the priest, and I was like, "Yeah!" But I'm not so sure about just enduring something that's not supposed to be done and seems to almost encourage one to forget about Jesus crucified (this would be my interpretation of the symbolism). Not to derail your thread, Nihil, but since we're on the topic of abuses during the season of Lent, does anyone know if omitting the Confiteor is allowed? Or is that something that's done during Lent and I've just not noticed it (seems counter-intuitive to penance, in my opinion...)? Does anyone else's parish do this during Lent? Or on a regular basis? It seems to be done consistently at a parish I go to, and according to the GIRM, it doesn't say it's optional. I don't know if I just started noticing this or the priest is forgetting or intentionally leaving it out. It's really odd to me that we don't say it... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nihil Obstat Posted March 16, 2011 Author Share Posted March 16, 2011 [quote name='Chamomile' timestamp='1300236682' post='2221014'] I thought you meant make it a sacrifice to bring it up to the priest, and I was like, "Yeah!" But I'm not so sure about just enduring something that's not supposed to be done and seems to almost encourage one to forget about Jesus crucified (this would be my interpretation of the symbolism). Not to derail your thread, Nihil, but since we're on the topic of abuses during the season of Lent, does anyone know if omitting the Confiteor is allowed? Or is that something that's done during Lent and I've just not noticed it (seems counter-intuitive to penance, in my opinion...)? Does anyone else's parish do this during Lent? Or on a regular basis? It seems to be done consistently at a parish I go to, and according to the GIRM, it doesn't say it's optional. I don't know if I just started noticing this or the priest is forgetting or intentionally leaving it out. It's really odd to me that we don't say it... [/quote] Actually, my priest tends to omit the Confiteor every time except Lent, which bugs the croutons out of me. I believe that the omission of the Contiteor is driving a semi truck through a tiny loophole in the GIRM. The Act of Penitence 51. Then the priest invites those present to take part in the Act of Penitence, which, after a brief pause for silence, the entire community carries out through a formula of general confession. The rite concludes with the priest's absolution, which, however, lacks the efficacy of the Sacrament of Penance. On Sundays, especially in the Season of Easter, in place of the customary Act of Penitence, from time to time the blessing and sprinkling of water to recall Baptism may take place.56 The Kyrie Eleison 52. After the Act of Penitence, the Kyrie is always begun, unless it has already been included as part of the Act of Penitence. Since it is a chant by which the faithful acclaim the Lord and implore his mercy, it is ordinarily done by all, that is, by the people and with the choir or cantor having a part in it. As a rule, each acclamation is sung or said twice, though it may be repeated several times, by reason of the character of the various languages, as well as of the artistry of the music or of other circumstances. When the Kyrie is sung as a part of the Act of Penitence, a trope may precede each acclamation. The GIRM says "act of penitence", rather than "Confiteor", so I believe that priests are interpreting that the Kyrie can also act as the act of penitence. However the GIRM clearly makes a distinction between the two. I do not believe there is good reason to omit the Confiteor. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CatherineM Posted March 16, 2011 Share Posted March 16, 2011 If it makes you feel any better, Cardinal Burke agrees with you. [quote]Bad Mass = Weak Faith Cardinal Raymond Burke: 'Liturgical abuses lead to serious damage to the faith of Catholics.' by CINDY WOODEN (CNS) 03/03/2011 ROME (CNS) — A weakening of faith in God, a rise in selfishness and a drop in the number of people going to Mass in many parts of the world can be traced to Masses that are not reverent and don’t follow Church rules, said two Vatican officials and a consultant. “If we err by thinking we are the center of the liturgy, the Mass will lead to a loss of faith,” said U.S. Cardinal Raymond Burke, head of the Vatican’s Supreme Court. Cardinal Burke and Spanish Cardinal Antonio Canizares Llovera, prefect of the Congregation for Divine Worship and the Sacraments, spoke March 2 at a book launch in Rome. The book, published only in Italian, was written by Father Nicola Bux, who serves as a consultant to the Congregations for the Doctrine of the Faith and for Saints’ Causes and to the office in charge of papal liturgies. The English translation of Father Bux’s book title would be: How to Go to Mass and Not Lose Your Faith. Cardinal Burke told those gathered for the book presentation that he agreed with Father Bux: that “liturgical abuses lead to serious damage to the faith of Catholics.” Unfortunately, he said, too many priests and bishops treat violations of liturgical norms as something that is unimportant when, in fact, they are “serious abuses.” Cardinal Canizares said that while the book’s title is provocative, it demonstrates a belief he shares: “Participating in the Eucharist can make us weaken or lose our faith if we do not enter into it properly” and if the liturgy is not celebrated according to the Church’s norms. “This is true whether one is speaking of the ordinary or extraordinary form of the one Roman rite,” the cardinal said, referring to Masses in the form established after the Second Vatican Council as well as the Mass often referred to as the Tridentine rite. Cardinal Canizares said that at a time when so many people are living as if God did not exist, they need a true Eucharistic celebration to remind them that only God is to be adored and that true meaning in human life comes only from the fact that Jesus gave his life to save the world. Father Bux said that too many modern Catholics think the Mass is something that the priest and the congregation do together, when, in fact, it is something that Jesus does: “If you go to a Mass in one place and then go to Mass in another, you will not find the same Mass. This means that it is not the Mass of the Catholic Church, which people have a right to, but it is just the Mass of this parish or that priest.” [/quote] [url="http://www.ncregister.com/daily-news/bad-mass-weak-faith"]NCR[/url] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nihil Obstat Posted March 16, 2011 Author Share Posted March 16, 2011 I was discussing that article a while ago. I wholeheartedly agree. Save the liturgy, save the world. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CatherineM Posted March 16, 2011 Share Posted March 16, 2011 Burke is hard core. If they'd let me vote, he'd have mine for the next Pope. Hopefully not anytime soon though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nihil Obstat Posted March 16, 2011 Author Share Posted March 16, 2011 [quote name='CatherineM' timestamp='1300243437' post='2221048'] Burke is hard core. If they'd let me vote, he'd have mine for the next Pope. Hopefully not anytime soon though. [/quote] I'd pick Arinze first, but I sure wouldn't have any complaints about Burke. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CatherineM Posted March 16, 2011 Share Posted March 16, 2011 [quote name='Nihil Obstat' timestamp='1300243656' post='2221050'] I'd pick Arinze first, but I sure wouldn't have any complaints about Burke. [/quote] Big shock, you go for the liturgist, and I go for the lawyer. In either case, they are both for denying communion to pro-choice politicians. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nihil Obstat Posted March 16, 2011 Author Share Posted March 16, 2011 [quote name='CatherineM' timestamp='1300244117' post='2221054'] Big shock, you go for the liturgist, and I go for the lawyer. In either case, they are both for denying communion to pro-choice politicians. [/quote] I know more about Arinze, and I know he's in favour of chant, and kneeling for Communion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chamomile Posted March 16, 2011 Share Posted March 16, 2011 [quote name='Nihil Obstat' timestamp='1300237319' post='2221017'] The GIRM says "act of penitence", rather than "Confiteor", so I believe that priests are interpreting that the Kyrie can also act as the act of penitence. However the GIRM clearly makes a distinction between the two. I do not believe there is good reason to omit the Confiteor. [/quote] That's what I thought. I guess my point of discussion with the priest will be that the Confiteor/act of penitence and the Kyrie are different because.... [i]they're different[/i]. AndArinze or Burke would be amesome as pope I think there's a video of the Franciscans of the Immaculate, where they discuss how "Pope-able" Cardinal Burke is Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Piccoli Fiori JMJ Posted March 16, 2011 Share Posted March 16, 2011 +JMJ I endure Sunday Masses with only the Processional Crucifix and they just removed the Holy Water this week (although it was there this past Sunday). I have a bone to pick with someone about how on earth they think something symbolic is so much more important than the graces and help from God we receive through the sacramental Holy Water... and it is a little distracting when all the little old ladies come in for daily Mass, reach for the holy water in the font, clink around the plastic cup in the font, only to exclaim there is no Holy Water! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nihil Obstat Posted March 16, 2011 Author Share Posted March 16, 2011 [quote name='FutureNunJMJ' timestamp='1300291286' post='2221159'] +JMJ I endure Sunday Masses with only the Processional Crucifix and they just removed the Holy Water this week (although it was there this past Sunday). I have a bone to pick with someone about how on earth they think something symbolic is so much more important than the graces and help from God we receive through the sacramental Holy Water... and it is a little distracting when all the little old ladies come in for daily Mass, reach for the holy water in the font, clink around the plastic cup in the font, only to exclaim there is no Holy Water! [/quote] Like I've said elsewhere, it's telling a sick man to give up his meds for Lent. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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