Calvin's Origins

[M.SIGGA]

A friend of mine is studying the Protestant Reformation, and he emailed me this article, and it comes from a SSPX publication, anyway, it focuses on the Origins of John Calvin. I thought this was really wierd (and sort of disturbing), but has anyone else heard of this accusation concerning his introduction to Protestantism before? I didn't document dump the whole thing because it is quite long, but this first section was the most questionable. If you want to see the source or the rest of the article, it comes from [i]the Angelus [/i]by Rev . Fr. Philippe Marcille. I am a little apprehensive to post this, and I understand the source being SSPX is already sketchy, so please don't throw any stones; I'd honestly like to know if it is really true. Note: Calvin, not Luther, is the most influencial Reformer to Protestant interpretations and beliefs concerning salvation and Holy Scripture, especially in France, the UK, and in the United States. Thanks.

[quote]The influence of John Calvin (1509-1564) has been immense, perhaps even more so than that of Luther. Certainly, without the bellowing revolutionary Luther, Calvin would not have been able to do anything; yet without Calvin, the revolt would not have had the political impact that it did in France and especially the United States.

He was born in Picardy, France, in 1509. His parents were well-to-do people. A very gifted student, he received a benefice from the Church and continued his studies at Paris. He was not well liked by his classmates: they nicknamed him "the accusative." He readily scolded others and tattled on them, while remaining aloof and bitter. But when in public, he would lose all his reserve and stand out in debates. An anti-Lutheran, defender of authority, he approved the legal actions brought against the most strident Lutherans.

[b]In 1532, at the College of France, he was still Catholic. By the end of 1533, he had suddenly turned Protestant, sold his benefices, and begun the life of an itinerant preacher. What happened?

Protestant hagiography has sought to explain it by edifying conversations in his room that would have taken place between Calvin and a Protestant cousin. Recent studies, however, have shown that the two were hundreds of miles apart at the time. A key, though, was left in part by Calvin himself:

"Each and every time I entered within myself, a horror so great came over me that neither purifications nor satisfactions could have effaced it. The more I considered myself the more my conscience was pricked with sharp darts, so much so that only one consolation remained, and that was to deceive myself by forgetting about myself ....bewildered by the misery into which I had fallen, and even more so by the knowledge of how close I was to eternal death" (Letter to Sadolet).

It is only fair to wonder what could be the nature of such a burning self-reproach. There is one answer, based upon serious evidence, one that has always been passionately denied by the Protestants. In 1551, a Catholic controversialist revealed that the archives of the city of Noyon, Calvin's birth place, contain the record of a condemnation against Calvin, at age 18, for sodomy. He had by then already received the tonsure. His parents obtained clemency from the bishop, so that in­stead of being condemned to death as the law demanded, he was branded as a sign of infamy. [/b]The Catholic controversialist presented the evidence signed by all the eminent personages of the city. The English scholar Stapleton went there to examine the archives during Calvin's lifetime, and vouched for the fact. The contemporary German Lutherans spoke of it as an established fact (Schlusselburg, Théologie calvinienne).

[b]At twenty-four, Calvin was at a crossroads. He had to choose between confession or Lutheranism. He chose: "Only believe, and you are as sure of your own eternal salvation as of the Redemption of Christ. Only believe, and despite all the crimes, not only will you remain in the grace of God, in justice, but you will always remain in grace and you will never be able to lose it" (Bossuet's summary of his doctrine in "Variations")[/b].[/quote]

[Brother Adam]

Only when it comes to reformed protestants: those that abandon liturgical worship all together.

[M.SIGGA]

I thought Calvin was the author of the Protestant principles accepted by the Church of England during the reign of Elizabeth I, which branched down further through Methodism and the Puritan and Separatist churches - and isn't the Presbyterian church, or some branches of it, liturgical too? I know Rev. Dr. James Kennedy is liturgical and after 5 minutes of listening to him you know Calvin is his homeboy.

[Brother Adam]

lol. We might read different history books too. All depends who writes it.

[NewReformation]

Precisely which act of "sodomy" was he convicted of? Legally, Sodomy has more than one meaning, and it does not necassarily carry the meaning of homosexuality.

Websters Seventh New Collegiate Dictionary(I'm using this one because it's the only one handy) defines Sodomy as this: a) carnal copulation with a member of the same sex or an animal; b) noncoital carnal copulation with a member of the opposite sex.

[PedroX]

Sigga,

I can't find anything about Calvin and a sodomy charge, but now you've got me looking!

Interestingly, Calvin attended the seminary in Paris where Ignatius Loyola would later attend.

Calvin is considered the "father" or Presbyterianism. Presbyterianism came up with the Westminster Confession of Faith (is this what you were referring to?) during the reign of QEI.

Calvinism has folowers in Presbyterianism, Dutch Reformed, Reformed Church of America, Reformed Baptists, even some modern Lutheran doctrine traces itself back to Calvinist theology.

peace...

[M.SIGGA]

[quote name='NewReformation' date='Apr 22 2004, 02:39 PM'] Precisely which act of "sodomy" was he convicted of? Legally, Sodomy has more than one meaning, and it does not necassarily carry the meaning of homosexuality.

Websters Seventh New Collegiate Dictionary(I'm using this one because it's the only one handy) defines Sodomy as this: a) carnal copulation with a member of the same sex or an animal; b) noncoital carnal copulation with a member of the opposite sex. [/quote]
I think it's refering to the "Each and everytime I entered within myself [...] how close I was to eternal death" quote where he expressed fear of grave danger by commiting mortal sin, a Catholic belief he dropped when he left the Church.

Remember he was supposedly charged with sodomy at 18, and he left the Church at 24, which isn't a big time slot. A big problem is that the supposed letter to Sadolet isn't dated.

This doesn't necessarily mean he was a homosexual. Perhaps this constitued sodomy too under "Divine Law" when Church&State were combined in the 1500s?

Edited April 22, 2004 by M.SIGGA

[M.SIGGA]

[quote name='PedroX' date='Apr 22 2004, 03:10 PM'] Calvin is considered the "father" or Presbyterianism. Presbyterianism came up with the Westminster Confession of Faith (is this what you were referring to?) during the reign of QEI. [/quote]
yeah I didn't know for sure, but this is what I was talking about.

[M.SIGGA]

ok I'm obviously not a Reformation scholar; the Letter to Sadolet is from 1539, and it concerns an answer to the Cardinal Sadolet's attempts to bring Calvin's followers in Geneva back into the Catholic Church.

[maxk]

[quote name='M.SIGGA' date='Apr 22 2004, 02:11 PM'] Note: Calvin, not Luther, is the most influencial Reformer to Protestant interpretations and beliefs concerning salvation and Holy Scripture, especially in France, the UK, and in the United States.

[/quote]
He seems to have been quite a mastermind among the Protestants. I actually heard that he was the one who composed the belief for Divine Presence in the Eucharist for the early protestants. He wanted to establish a satisfying medium to their Eucharistic discord or at least make them all appear to be unified (at this time, Luther believed in Transubstantian to an extent and Oecolampdius and Zwingli accpeted Carlstadt's belief that when Jesus said "This is my Body" He was refering to the very body in the natural state sitting before them.) Calvin used indirect terms so as to make his doctrines acceptable to many of the confused Protestants. He taught the idea of "virtual presence" -- "the body of Christ in heaven is present in the Eucharist only in the sense that the bread receives from above an irradiation of Our Lord's Body, thus acquiring a special sanctifying virtue which is transmitted to the communicant."

About the sodomy charges, I've never actually heard that, but it is very interesting. What exactly is the "SSPX?"

[God Conquers]

wow, that's a really intersting article.

Calvin was the most influential reformer, and influenced Preebyterianism and all the "Reformed" churches, but not so much the CofE or Methodism. Methodism developed much later in the 18th century as a result of John Wesley's preching, and the CofE, although it had several presbyterian leanings under Edward, moved back center at Elizabeth, who prefered a via media.

I'm not so sure about the reson of Calvin's leaving though.... if he was fearful of confessing his own sins (I think this isn't so much a homosexual thing as a problem with spiritual ownership and pride), wouldn't that make him a little more lenient with others.

Calvin's regime in Switzerland is considered by many the first police state, except with a severe Protestant twist. You would be literally thrown in jail for sinning. Like if a woman was found out to be having premarital sex, she was put in the stocks. It wasn't a pleasant place.

[M.SIGGA]

[quote name='maxk' date='Apr 22 2004, 04:31 PM']About the sodomy charges, I've never actually heard that, but it is very interesting.  What exactly is the "SSPX?"[/quote]
SSPX is the [b]S[/b]ociety of [b]S[/b]t. [b]P[/b]ius [b]X[/b]. You can learn more about them here at their official site: [url="http://www.sspx.org/"]http://www.sspx.org/[/url]

and also at this site which explains their history and schism away from the Roman Catholic Church from an outside point-of view: [url="http://www.ewtn.com/expert/expertfaqframe.asp?source=/vexperts/conference.htm"]http://www.ewtn.com/expert/expertfaqframe..../conference.htm[/url]
(look under [i]general questions [/i]link)

[M.SIGGA]

[quote name='God Conquers' date='Apr 22 2004, 05:50 PM'] Calvin's regime in Switzerland is considered by many the first police state, except with a severe Protestant twist. You would be literally thrown in jail for sinning. Like if a woman was found out to be having premarital sex, she was put in the stocks. It wasn't a pleasant place. [/quote]
I have read the same and this is actually lead to the intense fighting in Switzerland between fellow Protestants of different confessions, and also between Catholics. Switzerland was like the "California" of Europe in the 16th Century, the harbor of Italian, German, and French culture, and Geneva was like the "L.A." - a hotbed for new ideas and reforms and liberalism. That SSPX article called Geneva the "gutter" of Europe.

Calvin was extremely popular at first as a reformer and preacher with radical new ideas spoken in a way no one had ever heard before and the people loved him, until he turned fanatical and called for actors to be imprisoned and for literally everything entertaining and wordly to get shut down. People were being imprisoned and tortured. The people's angry reaction followed - some turned back to the Church and some went to other Reformers, and chaos followed and the rest is in the history books.

In Calvin's letter to Sadolet, Protestant sources say Calvin's response was so powerfully argued supporting his point-of-view, the elderly Cardinal became dumbfounded and actually almost gave up hope the Swiss would return to the Catholic Church, but it turned out Calvin's actions in Switzerland would eventually lead many Swiss to convert back all by themselves without the Cardinal's intervention.

[God Conquers]

And now the Pope has some funny-looking but effective guards!

[Sojourner]

That's a fascinating article, M.Sigga. I grew up in a church where, during adult Sunday School, people would regularly ask, "Well, what does Calvin say about this?"

Anyway, PedroX, I'm definitely interested in anything you can find, and I'll do a little research on my own.