The Myth Of Free-Market Healthcare

[Nihil Obstat]

[quote name='apparently' timestamp='1300405898' post='2221448']
because it is blarney
[/quote]
You don't even know what it's about. After talking with you on these last few threads, I'm not even convinced that you've read any posts longer than about two sentences.

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[quote name='Nihil Obstat' timestamp='1299696125' post='2219579']
[url="http://mises.org/daily/5066/The-Myth-of-FreeMarket-Healthcare"]The Myth of Free-Market Healthcare[/url]
Mises Daily: Wednesday, March 09, 2011 by Kel Kelly

The AMA Monopoly

While most people believe that our healthcare industry is one comprised of free markets, it is anything but. The industry is completely distorted by government manipulation.[1]

To start with, the American Medical Association (AMA) has had a government-granted monopoly on the healthcare system for over 100 years. It has intentionally restricted the number of doctors allowed to practice medicine so as to raise physician incomes artificially.
[/quote]

BLARNEY

Edited March 18, 2011 by apparently

[Maggyie]

It should also be pointed out that the health care system in France is the cradle of an incredible amount of innovation. They beat some of the best US hospitals (including my own beloved Cleveland Clinic) to the punch fairly often.

[Nihil Obstat]

[quote name='apparently' timestamp='1300406950' post='2221451']
BLARNEY
[/quote]
So then you're saying that the AMA does not have a monopoly over American healthcare, and does not restrict the number of healthcare professionals?

[Winchester]

All I know is America is amesome and this whole thread is about Canadia destroying America!

[LouisvilleFan]

[quote name='Maggie' timestamp='1300250469' post='2221083']
I admit I kind of skimmed after I read the part about the desirability of Grade C (maybe even Grade D?) doctors and how the really bad ones would "go out of business" as "word got around." After leaving a trail of dead or disabled people in their wake. Mostly [b]poor [/b]dead people, since they would be the ones going to the Grade C docs. The [b]rich [/b]people would still get their Grade A medical care. So slimy and unethical.
[/quote]

I agreed with most points in the article, but the this one here is one that I definitely disagreed with. Word doesn't usually "get around" about anything unless the media reports it, and in most cases they trump it way out of proportion. Government is necessary for certain services that serve the common good and medical licensing is definitely one of those services. At the same time, it's quite plausible that scientific progress has reduced the number of people who are intellectually eligible for medical school. No matter amount of competition would make cancer drugs affordable to the middle-class.

Personally, I think the "ideal" would be some balance between the picture painted by this article and our current system. I like the idea of High Deductible Health Plans, which is how I'm insured. I pay the first $3,500 (except my routine physical and blood work, which are covered at 100%). So I have a very real interest in seeking lower costs should the need arise. Then I pay 10% up to some maximum amount around $6,000. Unfortunately, there aren't enough people on plans like this to change the economics of healthcare, but I think things are heading that direction as more companies refuse to foot so much of the bill.

[Papist]

[quote name='Lilllabettt' timestamp='1300398821' post='2221433']
Haven't read the thread - but on this I have to disagree with you. The best doctors, in both research and patient care, work on salary at group practices. They make less than physicians and surgeons in private practice, but that is a trade off they are willing to make to be on the cutting edge of medicine. Prestige, not money, is what matters. They do not think of themselves as businessmen.

The businessmen in medicine are those in private practice, who, wonderful and necessary though they may be, are not the innovators of the profession.

I personally am the recipient of medical innovation born in a socialist environment - The surgery I had was pioneered and perfected in England in 1981.
[/quote]

That is great that is what you experienced. I hope many others did also. But as a whole I stand by my assessment. It is what I experienced in the last 15+ years I have been in the healthcare industry.

[Papist]

[quote name='Winchester' timestamp='1300411544' post='2221468']
All I know is America is amesome and this whole thread is about Canadia destroying America!
[/quote]
You're good!

[Nihil Obstat]

[quote name='LouisvilleFan' timestamp='1300421578' post='2221493']
I agreed with most points in the article, but the this one here is one that I definitely disagreed with. Word doesn't usually "get around" about anything unless the media reports it, and in most cases they trump it way out of proportion.
[/quote]
I'm not so sure. Have you ever hired a contractor? Or taken music lessons from someone? Or even hired a babysitter? Look at the microcosms. See how things function already in industries that aren't regulated.
There are voluntary regulatory bodies (like the Better Business Bureau), you can find nearly anybody with a business online. You see my point. Just because there is one situation now doesn't mean that the situation must be the norm.

[Jesus_lol]

[quote name='Nihil Obstat' timestamp='1300428362' post='2221510']
I'm not so sure. Have you ever hired a contractor? Or taken music lessons from someone? Or even hired a babysitter? Look at the microcosms. See how things function already in industries that aren't regulated.
There are voluntary regulatory bodies (like the Better Business Bureau), you can find nearly anybody with a business online. You see my point. Just because there is one situation now doesn't mean that the situation must be the norm.
[/quote]

Word about contracters gets around (in smaller towns, cities not so much, they can basically move from place to place, city to city and screw people over regularily) because they leave behind damaged houses, and crappy renovations. for word to get around about a certain doctor...

[Winchester]

[quote name='Maggie' timestamp='1300409042' post='2221460']
It should also be pointed out that the health care system in France is the cradle of an incredible amount of innovation. They beat some of the best US hospitals (including my own beloved Cleveland Clinic) to the punch fairly often.
[/quote]
And racked up 8 billion in debt in one year alone.

[Nihil Obstat]

[quote name='Jesus_lol' timestamp='1300432932' post='2221516']
Word about contracters gets around (in smaller towns, cities not so much, they can basically move from place to place, city to city and screw people over regularily) because they leave behind damaged houses, and crappy renovations. for word to get around about a certain doctor...
[/quote]
That's not what I've seen in my city. When we've hired contractors in the past, we know a ton about them before we've ever spoken to them. It's very possible to find these things out. If the information is hard to find, you ask the contractor to see pictures of his last project, or to talk to the clients. If he refuses, there's a red flag already. You ask to see his estimates and his final costs.
For a doctor, you don't need to see a trail of dead bodies to know he's not the right one. First you see if he's agreed to be licensed by any voluntary body. You search him on the internet. There are bound to be patient testimonials. Heck, there are already sites for that, even though in theory they should be unnecessary. I bet there will be many times more when they're more important. On top of that, there will certainly be many more ways to check on your doctor in that scenario than there are now, simply because they will be more valuable.
The problem with this debate is that people assume simply that doctors stop licensing and everything else stays the same. That's thinking the way central planners want you to think. The entire paradigm needs to be re-imagined. In the market, needs are filled. Even needs you didn't know you had, but certainly needs that everybody worries about.

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[quote name='Nihil Obstat' timestamp='1300410822' post='2221465']
So then you're saying that the AMA does not have a monopoly over American healthcare, and does not restrict the number of healthcare professionals?
[/quote]

yes i do

[WarriorForJesus]

[quote name='Jesus_lol' timestamp='1300346691' post='2221354']
why should the man who forgets his BP medicine set the standard for healthcare?



but sure, compare having to spend 100,000s of thousands of dollars desperately trying to keep your child alive to going out and buying 12 eggs for 6 bucks.
[/quote]


[color="#800080"]I'm not saying that someone forgetting medicie should set the standard for healthcare, where did you get that? I was only saying that with free healthcare for all we would be forced to pay for everything from someone with a common cold which is viral and not bacterial, to someone who needs a quadruple cardiac bypass.

No, my friend, I am not for free healthcare, nor should anyone be.

Janice[/color]

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[quote name='Nihil Obstat' timestamp='1300238048' post='2221021']
You're the only person talking about the Canadian system, dude.
Stop trolling.
[/quote]

not any more,

so why did the Canadian Premier Danny Williams, of Newfoundland and Labrador, go to the US for heart surgery, If as you said [code]Americans receive only a mediocre quality of care. [/code] ?