Rebuild The Big 3

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[quote name='USAirwaysIHS' timestamp='1299693265' post='2219568']
[url="http://www.consumerreports.org/cro/cars/new-cars/buying-advice/best-worst-cars-review/overview/best-and-worst-ov.htm"]http://www.consumerr. ..nd-worst-ov.htm[/url]
CR's Best and Worst list:

9 out of 10 are non-American (7 of those Asian)...now let's look at the other half of the list...



6/8 are American.

The facts speak for themselves. yes, the big picture facts
[/quote]

9 out of 10 employ children or underaged, pollute, use sweatshops, not that i advocate polluting the environment,, I'm not

the difference between American made is simple the fact that the big 3 adhere to environmental standards and child labor laws, thus make car building more expensive, up front...

buying a car based on cost, is somewhat hypocritical and not for me. take the steel industries for example, steel production was once an great American industry but strict environmental standards have shifted production to unregulated countries.

[Nihil Obstat]

A similar analysis can also shed light on the problem of child labor, the source of a great deal of uninformed moralizing. Far from a product of the Industrial Revolution, child labor has existed since the beginning of time. When the productivity of labor is hopelessly low, parents naturally think of children as economic actors who can contribute to the well-being of their families. Without their children's participation in the family's work, the entire household could suffer terrible privation. This is a fact of life in poor, low-productivity societies that no "progressive" legislation can wish away. As Anna Krueger writes, "The issue of child labor is vexing: there are legitimate issues of intolerable working conditions, but employment of children may provide food that prevents a family from starving. In some instances, also, it may provide girls with an alternative to forced early marriages." Even the International Labor Organization conceded in a 1997 report, "Poverty, however, emerges as the most compelling reason why children work. Poor households need the money, and children commonly contribute around 20 to 25 percent of family income. Since by definition poor households spend the bulk of their income on food, it is clear that the income provided by working children is critical to their survival."

To say that legislation can bring about an end to child labor is akin to saying that someone's fever could be cured by dousing his thermometer in ice. The only way child labor can come to a genuine end is when the need for it has dwindled or disappeared. In societies where the productivity of labor has risen sufficiently — in other words, when the labor of fewer people is now necessary to perform the same amount of work as before — the contribution of children to the productive process no longer carries the same urgency. In wealthy societies like these, parents have the luxury of keeping their children at home, and in our own case, even providing them with over twelve years of formal education by age 18. Again, this outcome could not have been wished into existence. It had to be brought about through a dramatic increase in the productivity of labor — in other words, by the capital investment that occurs on the unhampered market.

Those who, out of a combination of legitimate humanitarian concern and unfortunate economic ignorance, attempt to accelerate this process by means of legislation prohibiting child labor only add to the very misery they claim to be alleviating. It is only because such humanitarians have spent their lives in the fantastically wealthy capitalist societies of the West that they could have failed to realize that dire poverty, which makes child labor inevitable, has been the lot of the entire human race for the great majority of its history. The fact is, legislation or no legislation, the typical family in a very poor country still needs the income the child's work brings. If the law prevents their children from being employed legally, then — supposing they do not want to starve — they are likely to employ their children illegally, where conditions are almost certain to be far worse. In fact, in exceedingly poor societies where liberal humanitarians have prohibited child labor, it is not uncommon to find that the children wind up in prostitution — hardly an improvement in their welfare, to say the least. In fact, Oxfam, the British charity, recently reported that when factory owners in Bangladesh gave in to pressure to fire child laborers, thousands starved or went into prostitution.
[url="http://www.lewrockwell.com/woods/woods25.html"]http://www.lewrockwell.com/woods/woods25.html[/url]

Edited March 9, 2011 by Nihil Obstat

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[quote name='Nihil Obstat' timestamp='1299699162' post='2219593']
A similar analysis can also shed light on the problem of child labor, the source of a great deal of uninformed moralizing. Far from a product of the Industrial Revolution, child labor has existed since the beginning of time. When the productivity of labor is hopelessly low, parents naturally think of children as economic actors who can contribute to the well-being of their families. Without their children's participation in the family's work, the entire household could suffer terrible privation. This is a fact of life in poor, low-productivity societies that no "progressive" legislation can wish away. As Anna Krueger writes, "The issue of child labor is vexing: there are legitimate issues of intolerable working conditions, but employment of children may provide food that prevents a family from starving. In some instances, also, it may provide girls with an alternative to forced early marriages." Even the International Labor Organization conceded in a 1997 report, "Poverty, however, emerges as the most compelling reason why children work. Poor households need the money, and children commonly contribute around 20 to 25 percent of family income. Since by definition poor households spend the bulk of their income on food, it is clear that the income provided by working children is critical to their survival."

To say that legislation can bring about an end to child labor is akin to saying that someone's fever could be cured by dousing his thermometer in ice. The only way child labor can come to a genuine end is when the need for it has dwindled or disappeared. In societies where the productivity of labor has risen sufficiently — in other words, when the labor of fewer people is now necessary to perform the same amount of work as before — the contribution of children to the productive process no longer carries the same urgency. In wealthy societies like these, parents have the luxury of keeping their children at home, and in our own case, even providing them with over twelve years of formal education by age 18. Again, this outcome could not have been wished into existence. It had to be brought about through a dramatic increase in the productivity of labor — in other words, by the capital investment that occurs on the unhampered market.

Those who, out of a combination of legitimate humanitarian concern and unfortunate economic ignorance, attempt to accelerate this process by means of legislation prohibiting child labor only add to the very misery they claim to be alleviating. It is only because such humanitarians have spent their lives in the fantastically wealthy capitalist societies of the West that they could have failed to realize that dire poverty, which makes child labor inevitable, has been the lot of the entire human race for the great majority of its history. The fact is, legislation or no legislation, the typical family in a very poor country still needs the income the child's work brings. If the law prevents their children from being employed legally, then — supposing they do not want to starve — they are likely to employ their children illegally, where conditions are almost certain to be far worse. In fact, in exceedingly poor societies where liberal humanitarians have prohibited child labor, it is not uncommon to find that the children wind up in prostitution — hardly an improvement in their welfare, to say the least. In fact, Oxfam, the British charity, recently reported that when factory owners in Bangladesh gave in to pressure to fire child laborers, thousands starved or went into prostitution.
[url="http://www.lewrockwell.com/woods/woods25.html"]http://www.lewrockwe...ds/woods25.html[/url]
[/quote]
DOES THE ENDS JUSTIFY THE MEANS?

[Nihil Obstat]

[quote name='apparently' timestamp='1299700149' post='2219600']
DOES THE ENDS JUSTIFY THE MEANS?
[/quote]
Nope. Luckily the article doesn't say so.
Did you read it? It's quite good. Dr. Woods is a Catholic.

[Vincent Vega]

[quote name='apparently' timestamp='1299697863' post='2219588']
the difference between American made is simple the fact that the big 3 adhere to environmental standards and child labor laws, thus make car building more expensive, up front...

[/quote]
Are you accusing the Japanese and Germans of disregarding environmental standards and child labour laws? That's a pretty hefty accusation...

[Semper Catholic]

[quote name='apparently' timestamp='1299697863' post='2219588']
9 out of 10 employ children or underaged, pollute, use sweatshops, not that i advocate polluting the environment,, I'm not

the difference between American made is simple the fact that the big 3 adhere to environmental standards and child labor laws, thus make car building more expensive, up front...

buying a car based on cost, is somewhat hypocritical and not for me. take the steel industries for example, steel production was once an great American industry but strict environmental standards have shifted production to unregulated countries.
[/quote]


LOL yeah, because the Big 3 are really all about the environment and helping people. Which is why Detroit is one of the most polluted cities in America, and why they use the worst materials and production designs in all of their vehicles.

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[quote name='Semper Catholic' timestamp='1299709087' post='2219640']
LOL yeah, because the Big 3 are really all about the environment and helping people. Which is why Detroit is one of the most polluted cities in America, and why they use the worst materials and production designs in all of their vehicles.
[/quote]


[b][color="RED"]Who won the war![/color][/b]
[url="http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-chat/2349112/posts"]Hiroshima vs Detroit -- 64 years later[/url]

[Ed Normile]

Ford has had no problems, their vehicles perform well and last great, that is one reason they did not need to accept bailout monies and get taken over by the Obama administration. The free market needs to be left alone to work itself out, if GM and Dodge could not compete on their own they needed to be left to go the way of AMC. Instead we now have two government run car companies, Obama mandates that GM produces electric cars, no market for them so guess who is going to pay for all the lost monies, yup, all the taxpayers get to underwrite the loss. Let them join the Edsel, American Motors Company and the dinosaurs as the market demands.

ed

[rkwright]

[quote name='Ed Normile' timestamp='1299712507' post='2219647']
Ford has had no problems, their vehicles perform well and last great, that is one reason they did not need to accept bailout monies and get taken over by the Obama administration. The free market needs to be left alone to work itself out, if GM and Dodge could not compete on their own they needed to be left to go the way of AMC. Instead we now have two government run car companies, Obama mandates that GM produces electric cars, no market for them so guess who is going to pay for all the lost monies, yup, all the taxpayers get to underwrite the loss. Let them join the Edsel, American Motors Company and the dinosaurs as the market demands.

ed
[/quote]

I'm glad someone pointed this out. Last I heard Ford was gaining marketshare on all the other companies, including toyota (the biggest of the asian companies). Ford did not accept any bailout help, and they were still profitable.

[rachael]

[quote name='Lil Red' timestamp='1299693794' post='2219571']
lucky for me, i get to do it a lot.
[/quote]
i cleaned up dog poo though

[Jesus_lol]

We have a Chevrolet Beuville van from the mid 90s. its got about 110,000 miles on it and it just died an awful death. this was after many years of limping from one expensive repair to another. and frequent breakdowns, one in the middle of a crowded highway. not to mention, it got awful gas mileage and was as slow to turn and accellerate as the QE2.

on the other hand, we just sold our 1987 toyota tercel, with 175,000 miles and barely even any preventative maintenance, and it is still running as well as it ever did.

my Toyota Celica GT, 1992, just hit 134,000 miles and is still going pretty well. Engine runs perfect (despite frequent redlining, and one unfortunate incident with a gallon of diesel), and the CV joint needs replacing. In its defense, i literally drove it like a rally car for the last 3 years, dirtroad sliding around at 60mph, e brake turning sometimes, flying along logging roads(literally, flying at a few points). I can also say that the bodywork is much more resilient than you would expect.

American cars just plain smell of elderberries, and have done so for decades.


This reminds me a lot of Harley Davidson, which after forcing through tariffs on japanese motorcycles, so they could stay afloat, has been floating on its brand recognition, past glory and looks for decades. They havent learned much from Detroit.

[infinitelord1]

I still say go with the Chevy Volt.

With gas prices being so high these days (nearing $4/gallon)...it's probably smart to buy something thats reliability is good, but most importantly has the best fuel efficiency in the world.

[Nihil Obstat]

[quote name='apparently' timestamp='1299709718' post='2219641']
[b][color="RED"]Who won the war![/color][/b]
[url="http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-chat/2349112/posts"]Hiroshima vs Detroit -- 64 years later[/url]
[/quote]
Well I learned something today: Detroit is one giant ruin. Good to know.

[homeschoolmom]

[quote name='Nihil Obstat' timestamp='1299732908' post='2219740']
Well I learned something today: Detroit is one giant ruin. Good to know.
[/quote]
Did you not know that before? Really?

[rachael]

[quote name='homeschoolmom' timestamp='1299763634' post='2219784']
Did you not know that before? Really?
[/quote]
It does look like someone chewed it up and spit it back out.