Rebuild The Big 3

[CatherineM]

There is a Honda I have my eye on, that's made in Ohio. My husband likes sto and go seating, so we got the Dodge. For someone who doesn't even know the difference between the brake and accelerator, he sure has strong opinions. Since I'm not allowed to drive right now, it's kind of moot anyway.

[infinitelord1]

I was born and raised in Flint, Michigan. This area of the United States was one of the best places to live in, in the world, at one point in time. Why is this? The answer is simple. This was the birth place of the Automobile. Three major Corporations arose out of this area. These three major Corporations are known as General Motors, Ford, and Chrysler. The benefits of having three, similar Corporations like this are enormous.
An Oligopoly, by definition, is a collection of large firms that produce similar products. General Motors, Ford, and Chrysler form an Oligopoly. The good thing about having an Oligopoly is that there is still a level of competition. Where as in a Monopoly, there would be nearly no competition, and a corporation would be able to completely control prices on its product. Because the Big Three are an Oligopoly, they are able to have control over the market yet at the same time keep each other in check. So if one were to exceed equilibrium price on its product, and the population was negatively effected, then the other two companies can learn from the mistake of the other. Or if one of the companies was successful at raising its prices on its product then the other two companies can follow suit.
The Automobile industry is a very important industry, in many societies, in this day and age. Most countries who produce automobiles, and sell them on the world market, experience economic freedom. Or in other words, they have money. There are many different car companies today. Many of which are trying to gain a foothold in the United States. In particular, asian car companies such as Kia, Toyota, Acura, Honda, Hyundai, Infiniti, Subaru, Mitsubishi, Lexus, Mazda, Nissan, Subaru, Suzuki, etc. It is important to know which cars are asian and which aren't. I will explain why later. I also want to note that Isuzu is not an asian owned company. It is owned by General Motors. Anyways, because of their presence in the United States, asian Car Companies are taking in a piece of the pie. The stronger their presence becomes, the less economic surplus the United States is able to experience. The money these companies make from sales are benefiting their respective countries more than the United States. I say we put a stop to it.
Probably the very thing that most companies dislike the most is Federal and State Taxes. Before a company starts selling a product it decides the price at which it will sell the product. Knowing the price also dictates how much of a certain product the company will produce. The higher the price of the product, the more the company will wish to sell. However, the goal is not for the company to raise prices. So if the company is willing to sell 100 units of a certain product at $10, then it would sell less than 100 units once taxes are implemented because taxes cut into the profit the company is making. In the case of the Big Three, Federal and State taxes should be lowered. That way the companies would be willing to produce more, and make more profit.
One might see this as a conservative point of view. This is a conservative point of view! And just because it may be beneficial to lower taxes for one company does not mean we should do it for all of them. Just for a few select corporations that have a profound effect on the American Economy. And only when they need it! So right now, the State of Michigan should lower its taxes for the Big Three. The Federal Government should as well. This does not mean that these governments will experience a decrease in tax money. By lowering taxes and increasing profits, other business will be able to build off of the economy that the Big Three are creating. In particular, small businesses. These businesses will create more jobs. The more employees and businesses that you create, the more tax money you will see.
Small business is important in an economy. When small businesses are prominent in an area, the competition is high. When there is a lot of competition then the price of a certain product does not change. When one small business fails the other small businesses, for at least some time, will experience economic surplus. Basically, one business failing does not hurt the economy in this case. Another good thing about having many small business in an economy is that, because they don't have much of an effect on a certain product's price, they begin to compete for the better quality product. Some of the best Pizza Parlors and Ice Cream parlors that I have ever been to are located around the Flint area. It's because the Big Three creates its own economy and small businesses thrive and compete because of it. A good analogy would be how Mt. Rainier, WA creates it's own Eco System in which the rest of the environment is effected by it in a beautiful and positive way.
Many people view the United Auto Workers Union as a threat to big business. Generally, when there is a union, the Corporation forks out more money and benefits to it's employees. This is actually a good thing as long as the UAW cooperates with these Corporations when the Corporations are at low points. The UAW makes sure that Autoworkers get paid enough money to exceed their basic needs. This is how other businesses survive. When a large portion of a population in a city is making $40,000- $50,000/year or more then they can afford to take their families out to dinner or to the movies, for example. Hence, small businesses thriving off of Auto Worker salaries. So long as the Big Three maintains a normal profit everything should be just fine. The goal, for the sake of the economy, should not be to maximize profit. It should be to maintain a profit while at the same time letting other businesses thrive off of middle class salaries.
Another good idea might be to start outsourcing Auto Plants to other states. So long as the other states have similar working standards and taxes as the State of Michigan. This would make sense because the State of Michigan would not be the only state thriving off of this type of business. Other States could start to reap the benefits. Many more small businesses could begin to thrive in other places. People from all over the United States would realize how important it is to have the Big Three. More companies would arise and begin to operate like the Big Three has been operating all these years. All over the United States. You would have higher quality products in your stores. Better tasting Pizza. Better tasting Ice Cream. You could take your family to Disney World at least once in a life time. There would still be rich people in America! The factories can be turned into Tank plants in times of War!!! Theres too much reason to make the Big Three dominant again!!! To set the example!!! Oh yeah, if lowering taxes doesn't work, then I say we start running all these Asian Cars off the road. Except the Isuzu's of course. Then people would have to buy from the Big Three.

[infinitelord1]

Not to mention...


We got the Best Fuel economy in the world....my Cobalt is getting 30 mpg overall. It was getting 32 or 33 when I first got it.



Have you checked out the 2011 Chevy Volt? I'd buy that over a BMW!!! Plus its completely Economical!!!!

[infinitelord1]

[quote name='CatherineM' timestamp='1299526201' post='2218880']
There is a Honda I have my eye on, that's made in Ohio. My husband likes sto and go seating, so we got the Dodge. For someone who doesn't even know the difference between the brake and accelerator, he sure has strong opinions. Since I'm not allowed to drive right now, it's kind of moot anyway.
[/quote]


Be an American...Don't buy it! Get Chevrolet for the fuel economy. Have you seen gas prices rising lately?

[infinitelord1]

[quote name='USAirwaysIHS' timestamp='1299522102' post='2218851']
The following is a list of automobile manufacturers and the states in which they have motor vehicle assembly plants (non-exhaustive):

BMW - SC
Chrysler - IL, IN, MI, NC, OH, WI
Ford - IL, KY, MI, MN, MO, NY, OH
GM - KS, KY, LA, MI, OH, TN, TX, WI
Honda - AL, OH
Hyundai - AL
Mazda - MI
Mercedes-Benz - AL
Subaru - IN,
Toyota - AL, CA, IN, KY, MS, TX, WV
Volkswagen - TN*

* Under Construction

This list is not very good for anything, other than showing that non-US-based automobile manufacturers can and do contribute to the US economy (cf. Toyota).
[/quote]

Our economy would be better if The Big Three took there places.

[Nihil Obstat]

[quote name='infinitelord1' timestamp='1299568577' post='2219093']
I was born and raised in Flint, Michigan. This area of the United States was one of the best places to live in, in the world, at one point in time. Why is this? The answer is simple. This was the birth place of the Automobile. Three major Corporations arose out of this area. These three major Corporations are known as General Motors, Ford, and Chrysler. The benefits of having three, similar Corporations like this are enormous.
An Oligopoly, by definition, is a collection of large firms that produce similar products. General Motors, Ford, and Chrysler form an Oligopoly. The good thing about having an Oligopoly is that there is still a level of competition. Where as in a Monopoly, there would be nearly no competition, and a corporation would be able to completely control prices on its product. Because the Big Three are an Oligopoly, they are able to have control over the market yet at the same time keep each other in check. So if one were to exceed equilibrium price on its product, and the population was negatively effected, then the other two companies can learn from the mistake of the other. Or if one of the companies was successful at raising its prices on its product then the other two companies can follow suit.
The Automobile industry is a very important industry, in many societies, in this day and age. Most countries who produce automobiles, and sell them on the world market, experience economic freedom. Or in other words, they have money. There are many different car companies today. Many of which are trying to gain a foothold in the United States. In particular, asian car companies such as Kia, Toyota, Acura, Honda, Hyundai, Infiniti, Subaru, Mitsubishi, Lexus, Mazda, Nissan, Subaru, Suzuki, etc. It is important to know which cars are asian and which aren't. I will explain why later. I also want to note that Isuzu is not an asian owned company. It is owned by General Motors. Anyways, because of their presence in the United States, asian Car Companies are taking in a piece of the pie. The stronger their presence becomes, the less economic surplus the United States is able to experience. The money these companies make from sales are benefiting their respective countries more than the United States. I say we put a stop to it.
Probably the very thing that most companies dislike the most is Federal and State Taxes. Before a company starts selling a product it decides the price at which it will sell the product. Knowing the price also dictates how much of a certain product the company will produce. The higher the price of the product, the more the company will wish to sell. However, the goal is not for the company to raise prices. So if the company is willing to sell 100 units of a certain product at $10, then it would sell less than 100 units once taxes are implemented because taxes cut into the profit the company is making. In the case of the Big Three, Federal and State taxes should be lowered. That way the companies would be willing to produce more, and make more profit.
One might see this as a conservative point of view. This is a conservative point of view! And just because it may be beneficial to lower taxes for one company does not mean we should do it for all of them. Just for a few select corporations that have a profound effect on the American Economy. And only when they need it! So right now, the State of Michigan should lower its taxes for the Big Three. The Federal Government should as well. This does not mean that these governments will experience a decrease in tax money. By lowering taxes and increasing profits, other business will be able to build off of the economy that the Big Three are creating. In particular, small businesses. These businesses will create more jobs. The more employees and businesses that you create, the more tax money you will see.
Small business is important in an economy. When small businesses are prominent in an area, the competition is high. When there is a lot of competition then the price of a certain product does not change. When one small business fails the other small businesses, for at least some time, will experience economic surplus. Basically, one business failing does not hurt the economy in this case. Another good thing about having many small business in an economy is that, because they don't have much of an effect on a certain product's price, they begin to compete for the better quality product. Some of the best Pizza Parlors and Ice Cream parlors that I have ever been to are located around the Flint area. It's because the Big Three creates its own economy and small businesses thrive and compete because of it. A good analogy would be how Mt. Rainier, WA creates it's own Eco System in which the rest of the environment is effected by it in a beautiful and positive way.
Many people view the United Auto Workers Union as a threat to big business. Generally, when there is a union, the Corporation forks out more money and benefits to it's employees. This is actually a good thing as long as the UAW cooperates with these Corporations when the Corporations are at low points. The UAW makes sure that Autoworkers get paid enough money to exceed their basic needs. This is how other businesses survive. When a large portion of a population in a city is making $40,000- $50,000/year or more then they can afford to take their families out to dinner or to the movies, for example. Hence, small businesses thriving off of Auto Worker salaries. So long as the Big Three maintains a normal profit everything should be just fine. The goal, for the sake of the economy, should not be to maximize profit. It should be to maintain a profit while at the same time letting other businesses thrive off of middle class salaries.
Another good idea might be to start outsourcing Auto Plants to other states. So long as the other states have similar working standards and taxes as the State of Michigan. This would make sense because the State of Michigan would not be the only state thriving off of this type of business. Other States could start to reap the benefits. Many more small businesses could begin to thrive in other places. People from all over the United States would realize how important it is to have the Big Three. More companies would arise and begin to operate like the Big Three has been operating all these years. All over the United States. You would have higher quality products in your stores. Better tasting Pizza. Better tasting Ice Cream. You could take your family to Disney World at least once in a life time. There would still be rich people in America! The factories can be turned into Tank plants in times of War!!! Theres too much reason to make the Big Three dominant again!!! To set the example!!! Oh yeah, if lowering taxes doesn't work, then I say we start running all these Asian Cars off the road. Except the Isuzu's of course. Then people would have to buy from the Big Three.
[/quote]
This is called protectionism, and it is a very poor economic idea.

[rachael]

[quote name='infinitelord1' timestamp='1299568827' post='2219095']
Not to mention...


We got the Best Fuel economy in the world....my Cobalt is getting 30 mpg overall. It was getting 32 or 33 when I first got it.



Have you checked out the 2011 Chevy Volt? I'd buy that over a BMW!!! Plus its completely Economical!!!!
[/quote]
my mom's (bmw) mini cooper gets better fuel efficiency than my cobalt.

[sixpence]

i love my corolla.. if american car companies would make cars in such pretty blue colors i might buy them...not to mention the 32 mpg overall... and reputation for dependability...

my parents were LOYAL ford buyers... but then fords were not getting the ratings so they are now all toyotas

[Vincent Vega]

[quote name='infinitelord1' timestamp='1299568577' post='2219093']
I was born and raised in Flint, Michigan.
[/quote]
And there we see the motivation. I understand that it must be difficult to see your hometown crumble around you as must have happened over the past few decades, but I don't intend to buy a commodity - especially one as expensive as an automobile - out of charity. If you wish to do so...well, I suppose that's the liberty that a free-market economy gives you.
[quote name='infinitelord1' timestamp='1299569171' post='2219097']
Our economy would be better if The Big Three took there places.
[/quote]
Or if the foreign manufacturers continued to build more and more of their automobiles and the components thereof here. Jobs is jobs.[quote name='sixpence' timestamp='1299591261' post='2219134']
my parents were LOYAL ford buyers... but then fords were not getting the ratings so they are now all toyotas
[/quote]
Bingbingbing, and that's what it boils down to.

[Nihil Obstat]

[quote name='USAirwaysIHS' timestamp='1299607909' post='2219217']
And there we see the motivation. I understand that it must be difficult to see your hometown crumble around you as must have happened over the past few decades, but I don't intend to buy a commodity - especially one as expensive as an automobile - out of charity. If you wish to do so...well, I suppose that's the liberty that a free-market economy gives you.

Or if the foreign manufacturers continued to build more and more of their automobiles and the components thereof here. Jobs is jobs.
Bingbingbing, and that's what it boils down to.
[/quote]
Right you are. The fact is that American car manufacturers are currently inferior to Asian car manufacturers, therefore, even in spite of American protectionist pressures, they are failing.
I say let them fail entirely. To continue to support them is a drain on resources. It is poor investment with capital that could be directed to far more productive areas.

Incidentally, that's why I also advocate defunding the Canadian Broadcasting Corporation.

[Papist]

I have had a horrible experience with my Honda(CRV), as also my sister(Accord) has. I bought it b/c it was supposed to be the best, au contraire, mon frère! I am on my third A/C with less than 80k miles. I have spent $5,000+ on it in the past 4 years.

What really is an American car these days. The Jeep Patriot is more Japanese than American. How 'Patriotic' is that? Have you seen the Chrysler Ad that has George Washington coming to rescue in a Dodge Challenger. The slogan is, “Here’s a couple of things America got right: Cars….and Freedom.” Challenger platform was designed alongside Mercedes-Benz and is assembled in Canada. The V-8 Hemi engine in the SRT8s[which was in the commercial] are built in Mexico.

My next car will be an Asian truck or Ford F150. I give kudos to Ford for refusing to be a government automaker and not taking the bailout money.

[Nihil Obstat]

[quote name='Papist' timestamp='1299612210' post='2219255']
What really is an American car these days. The Jeep Patriot is more Japanese than American. How 'Patriotic' is that? Have you seen the Chrysler Ad that has George Washington coming to rescue in a Dodge Challenger. The slogan is, “Here’s a couple of things America got right: Cars….and Freedom.” Challenger platform was designed alongside Mercedes-Benz and is assembled in Canada. The V-8 Hemi engine in the SRT8s[which was in the commercial] are built in Mexico.
[/quote]
Wanna know why?
Market. Forces.
American car manufacturers are inferior, therefore market forces cause it to be outsourced. We can talk about price of labour, raw materials, taxation, shift in industries, and probably several dozen other factors. These factors all conclude in one thing; it is not economical to manufacture cars in the United States right now. The products are inferior and the industry is not sustainable on its own.
An industry that needs to be bailed out should be allowed to fail. The sooner it does, the sooner misplaced (wasted) investment can be liquidated and redirected to productive areas.

Edited March 8, 2011 by Nihil Obstat

[Papist]

[quote name='Nihil Obstat' timestamp='1299612459' post='2219259']
Wanna know why?
Market. Forces.
American car manufacturers are inferior, therefore market forces cause it to be outsourced. We can talk about price of labour, raw materials, taxation, shift in industries, and probably several dozen other factors. These factors all conclude in one thing; it is not economical to manufacture cars in the United States right now. The products are inferior and the industry is not sustainable on its own.
An industry that needs to be bailed out should be allowed to fail. The sooner it does, the sooner misplaced (wasted) investment can be liquidated and redirected to productive areas.
[/quote]
There is no shortage of reasons why the US automobiles are at the bottom. And some very complex shady business practices between the automakers, dealers and unions.

I do wish there were no bailout. They made their bed, so they should have been made to sleep in it.

Edited March 8, 2011 by Papist

[Nihil Obstat]

[quote name='Papist' timestamp='1299613277' post='2219263']
There is no shortage of reasons why the US automobiles are at the bottom. And some very complex shady business practices between the automakers, dealers and unions.

I do wish there were no bailout. They made their bed, so they should have been made to sleep in it.
[/quote]
I had mistakenly thought for a moment that you were the one who was so against foreign cars. Had I recognized that you are not, I would have tailored my response to more explicitly agree with you.
We are very much in agreement then.

[MIKolbe]

[quote name='Nihil Obstat' timestamp='1299612459' post='2219259']
Wanna know why?
Market. Forces.
American car manufacturers are inferior, therefore market forces cause it to be outsourced. We can talk about price of labour, raw materials, taxation, shift in industries, and probably several dozen other factors. These factors all conclude in one thing; it is not economical to manufacture cars in the United States right now. The products are inferior and the industry is not sustainable on its own.
An industry that needs to be bailed out should be allowed to fail. The sooner it does, the sooner misplaced (wasted) investment can be liquidated and redirected to productive areas.
[/quote]
probably one of the best posts in this thread.

next to this one, of course.