Praying From Extraordinary Form Missal At Ordinary Form Mass

[emilier98]

[quote name='Laudate_Dominum' timestamp='1299478993' post='2218759']
I don't think this thread is supposed to be a debate about the OF vs EF so I'm not going to touch that one.
[/quote]

Neither did I, but it seems to have turned into that. I was just trying to be a peacemaker.

[Laudate_Dominum]

[quote name='emilier98' timestamp='1299482920' post='2218767']
Neither did I, but it seems to have turned into that. I was just trying to be a peacemaker.
[/quote]
A most noble endeavor. Much appreciated.

Mass rocks, period. On this we surely agree.

[Chamomile]

Thanks for responding to my post, LD.

I had a thought - if anyone is really interested in this and wants to find out if it's "allowed" or whatever the status of doing this is according to the Church, maybe you could contact the Canons of St. John Cantius. As their charism is to have reverent OF and EF Masses, maybe they know a bit about a sort of "mixing" of the two forms. I vaguely remember Pope Benedict saying something about the two forms lending to one another, though I don't want to look up the quote right now. That may apply here.

[Chamomile]

[quote name='emilier98' timestamp='1299477984' post='2218754']
Does it honestly matter what form of the mass you go to as long as you go to mass? Holy communion is still holy communion. The host is still undergoes transubstantiation. You still get the readings and a homily. You still attend mass and are in the presence of God and you still worship him. So really what does it matter what form of the mass you go to? As far as I know God does not prefer one form to the other.
[/quote]



In the end, yes, you receive the Eucharist. I don't think anyone denies that, unless they're sedevacantist.

As far as "does it matter which form you attend," that can be a personal question depending on the person's spirituality (see my post above). So for me, yes, it does matter sometimes, and I would always choose the EF if that were a possibility.

I know you were trying to be a peacemaker, which is a good thing - but for those of us that are really drawn to the Traditional Latin Mass, it sometimes feels as though we're being accused of being snobbish or not acknowledging the validity of the Novus Ordo when comments like the above are made, either in person or on the Internet.

I know you didn't intend it to be that way, but I felt it important to explain this so you might have more understanding. Peace, among those who may hold differing opinions within the Catholic Church, comes from acknowledging our differences on matters that are not dogma and allowing another to hold those opinions without either belittling those opinions or trying to make them unimportant. Because to some people, those differences are important. But to disagree is not heresy, so the difference of opinion is valuable and enriches our Church.

I hope you don't take this as accusatory, as peace and unity within the Church is something that is always heavy on my heart. As someone who loves the Mass in the EF but goes to the OF the majority of the time due to location, I often feel caught in-between both worlds (which are the same world, really). So I'm only trying to explain this so you might be more at peace with the existence of those who find a closer union with God in the Traditional Latin Mass.

I also hope I haven't said anything that's going to provoke endless, annoying debate or anger on anyone's part. I love you all and want nothing more than to worship together with you one day in Heaven

[size=1]Edited because my stepped on the keyboard and I didn't notice she had contributed her own thoughts above. They are not nice because I'm paying attention to the computer and not her...[/size]

Edited March 7, 2011 by Chamomile

[emilier98]

[quote name='Chamomile' timestamp='1299516090' post='2218821']
In the end, yes, you receive the Eucharist. I don't think anyone denies that, unless they're sedevacantist.

As far as "does it matter which form you attend," that can be a personal question depending on the person's spirituality (see my post above). So for me, yes, it does matter sometimes, and I would always choose the EF if that were a possibility.

I know you were trying to be a peacemaker, which is a good thing - but for those of us that are really drawn to the Traditional Latin Mass, it sometimes feels as though we're being accused of being snobbish or not acknowledging the validity of the Novus Ordo when comments like the above are made, either in person or on the Internet.

I know you didn't intend it to be that way, but I felt it important to explain this so you might have more understanding. Peace, among those who may hold differing opinions within the Catholic Church, comes from acknowledging our differences on matters that are not dogma and allowing another to hold those opinions without either belittling those opinions or trying to make them unimportant. Because to some people, those differences are important. But to disagree is not heresy, so the difference of opinion is valuable and enriches our Church.

I hope you don't take this as accusatory, as peace and unity within the Church is something that is always heavy on my heart. As someone who loves the Mass in the EF but goes to the OF the majority of the time due to location, I often feel caught in-between both worlds (which are the same world, really). So I'm only trying to explain this so you might be more at peace with the existence of those who find a closer union with God in the Traditional Latin Mass.

I also hope I haven't said anything that's going to provoke endless, annoying debate or anger on anyone's part. I love you all and want nothing more than to worship together with you one day in Heaven

[size="1"]Edited because my stepped on the keyboard and I didn't notice she had contributed her own thoughts above. They are not nice because I'm paying attention to the computer and not her...[/size]
[/quote]

I did not find what you said to be accusatory or inflammatory at all. I believe you should go to the mass that you feel most comfortable at. I have been to Latin masses and they are beautiful and I love them. I generally go to OF masses because where I live it is very hard to find a Latin mass and the times they are offered are way too early in the morning for me. We have a Cistercian Abbey across the highway from where I go to university and they have a Latin mass with Gregorian chant and I love the All Souls Day mass they do with a full schola who does everything in chant and everything is in Latin and it is so very beautiful. I love the EF and it is amazing, I understand your love for it very much. However, it seemed to have become a debate in here about which form is better and had gotten away from the original question and had even gotten away from why you love one form or another and that is what I wanted to stop.

[IcePrincessKRS]

[quote name='Laudate_Dominum' timestamp='1299476963' post='2218750']
I disagree. But this isn't a debate. Someone asked me a somewhat personal question and I responded. I'm not saying that you or anyone else has to understand it or approve.


That's not an altogether accurate comparison. I don't use the EF and respond in Latin. Generally I dovetail the EF propers in during periods of silence or during musical performances that often have nothing to do with the Mass. And I don't know where you get the responding in English thing from; I never said I do OF responses in Latin. Not that it is your concern, but generally I don't do audible responses at all at the OF or EF, so what? But perhaps you're just being snide and I'm wasting my time even responding.

But it is surely a less than ideal situation and I simply find it more tolerable and edifying than the alternative of leaving the EF missal at home. If you have a blast at your neighborhood OF then congratulations.

P.S. Flamebait?
[/quote]

I think your situation might be slightly different than the question posed... not sure... from what I understand you are saying prayers, silently, in addition to the normal responses, not substituting them? I was actually thinking along similar lines to what Cmom posted... only I was going to pose it as a question. lol I have been going back and forth on whether or not I feel like it's "disrespectful" or "not appropriate." The question I was going to pose was "would on OF frequenter find it disrespectful if someone attended that form and said the prayers of the EF instead?" On the one hand, I would not discourage silent prayer so if you're praying your OF prayers silently then I can't really find room to take issue with that (I pray silently, too, I just pray different prayers). But if someone were praying it out loud I might find that disruptive and disrespectful. Not because it's in Latin but because it's not a part of that form and can be distracting. If the motives were out of pride (in either instance) I would find that disrespectful. I think totally substituting prayers for either form if you're attending the opposite might not be appropriate... it's not just praying silently then, but changing what is supposed to be said. I wouldn't deign to change what is proper to either form of the Mass. I don't think saying the prayers as they should be is an abuse and therefore shouldn't be changed.

There is more crowding my mind on this but I'm having some trouble clarifying it into written word. If what I am saying seems convoluted I apologize. I am trying to draw a distinction between changing prayers said verbally to that of the opposite form, which I would find disrespectful, and praying them silently, which I do not find disrespectful. I think motive and how it's done factor in tremendously in whether or not this would be disrespectful or inappropriate. If it's silent then it's not so different from me saying Hail Marys to help me focus.

[Lil Red]

[quote name='IcePrincessKRS' timestamp='1299527164' post='2218885'] If it's silent then it's not so different from me saying Hail Marys to help me focus.[/quote]
exactly! when i'm wrangling R (because he doesn't last in the pew beyond the Gospel/homily), we go stand in the back, and if he's being particularly, ahem, rambunctious, then it's super hard for me to concentrate on the Mass. but i've found if i can say simply, "Our Blessed Mother, help me focus on your Son" or "Jesus, I believe, help my unbelief", then I can at least try to stay focused on Jesus.

[Chamomile]

[quote name='IcePrincessKRS' timestamp='1299527164' post='2218885']
I think your situation might be slightly different than the question posed... not sure... from what I understand you are saying prayers, silently, in addition to the normal responses, not substituting them? I was actually thinking along similar lines to what Cmom posted... only I was going to pose it as a question. lol I have been going back and forth on whether or not I feel like it's "disrespectful" or "not appropriate." The question I was going to pose was "would on OF frequenter find it disrespectful if someone attended that form and said the prayers of the EF instead?" On the one hand, I would not discourage silent prayer so if you're praying your OF prayers silently then I can't really find room to take issue with that (I pray silently, too, I just pray different prayers). But if someone were praying it out loud I might find that disruptive and disrespectful. Not because it's in Latin but because it's not a part of that form and can be distracting. If the motives were out of pride (in either instance) I would find that disrespectful. I think totally substituting prayers for either form if you're attending the opposite might not be appropriate... it's not just praying silently then, but changing what is supposed to be said. I wouldn't deign to change what is proper to either form of the Mass. I don't think saying the prayers as they should be is an abuse and therefore shouldn't be changed.

There is more crowding my mind on this but I'm having some trouble clarifying it into written word. If what I am saying seems convoluted I apologize. I am trying to draw a distinction between changing prayers said verbally to that of the opposite form, which I would find disrespectful, and praying them silently, which I do not find disrespectful. I think motive and how it's done factor in tremendously in whether or not this would be disrespectful or inappropriate. If it's silent then it's not so different from me saying Hail Marys to help me focus.
[/quote]



Oh wow. I didn't even consider that people would be praying completely different prayers out loud. I understood the OP's question to be asking about basically what LD does - bringing along the Missal and praying silently.

Praying completely different prayers in a different language in a voice audible to all around would obviously be disrespectful, in my opinion, because then you're introducing a type of confusion into what should be a peaceful and prayerful atmosphere. There's a man that sometimes comes to morning Mass nearby, and he sometimes will say the Latin responses only just for before and after reading the Gospel (Gloria tibi, Domini & Laus tibi, Christe). He does it very loudly, and I personally find this annoying. I don't care how much I love the EF - if someone was literally praying the prayers for that form outloud during the OF, I would either ask them as nicely as I could to stop or find someplace else to be (either within the church or at a different parish).

I found a thread on Catholic Answers kind of about this: [url="http://forums.catholic.com/showthread.php?t=66981"]Question for Tridentine Mass goers...[/url] There's actually a response from someone that says they lost their 1962 Missal, so now they bring the OF one to the EF! I'm sure they're praying silently, too, so I guess that answers Cmom's question (which I thought was kind of odd and off-topic because I understand this whole thing to be about silent prayer, but I see I was wrong... ?)

[Nihil Obstat]

[quote name='Chamomile' timestamp='1299530663' post='2218896']
Oh wow. I didn't even consider that people would be praying completely different prayers out loud. I understood the OP's question to be asking about basically what LD does - bringing along the Missal and praying silently.

Praying completely different prayers in a different language in a voice audible to all around would obviously be disrespectful, in my opinion, because then you're introducing a type of confusion into what should be a peaceful and prayerful atmosphere. There's a man that sometimes comes to morning Mass nearby, and he sometimes will say the Latin responses only just for before and after reading the Gospel (Gloria tibi, Domini & Laus tibi, Christe). He does it very loudly, and I personally find this annoying. I don't care how much I love the EF - if someone was literally praying the prayers for that form outloud during the OF, I would either ask them as nicely as I could to stop or find someplace else to be (either within the church or at a different parish).

I found a thread on Catholic Answers kind of about this: [url="http://forums.catholic.com/showthread.php?t=66981"]Question for Tridentine Mass goers...[/url] There's actually a response from someone that says they lost their 1962 Missal, so now they bring the OF one to the EF! I'm sure they're praying silently, too, so I guess that answers Cmom's question (which I thought was kind of odd and off-topic because I understand this whole thing to be about silent prayer, but I see I was wrong... ?)
[/quote]
I pray the Latin text of the OF when I attend, but I do so in a very much lowered voice (nearly inaudible- you'd only know if you read my lips). If I were to be more audible, it might be somewhat distracting to others (which is why I don't do it), but since it is the original, official, and most preferred text according to all Church documents (Latin has pride of place), I don't think it is disrespectful by any means.
Presuming, of course, that it's done for the right reasons.

[Chamomile]

[quote name='emilier98' timestamp='1299523882' post='2218864']
I did not find what you said to be accusatory or inflammatory at all. I believe you should go to the mass that you feel most comfortable at. I have been to Latin masses and they are beautiful and I love them. I generally go to OF masses because where I live it is very hard to find a Latin mass and the times they are offered are way too early in the morning for me. We have a Cistercian Abbey across the highway from where I go to university and they have a Latin mass with Gregorian chant and I love the All Souls Day mass they do with a full schola who does everything in chant and everything is in Latin and it is so very beautiful. I love the EF and it is amazing, I understand your love for it very much. However, it seemed to have become a debate in here about which form is better and had gotten away from the original question and had even gotten away from why you love one form or another and that is what I wanted to stop.
[/quote]



OK... I was just confused at how the conversation turned that way, and I guess I misinterpreted your post and wanted to help you - and other people - understand something I thought you were missing. Sometimes things come across differently than how we intend on the Internet. No worries

[Chamomile]

[quote name='Nihil Obstat' timestamp='1299530828' post='2218897']
I pray the Latin text of the OF when I attend, but I do so in a very much lowered voice (nearly inaudible- you'd only know if you read my lips). If I were to be more audible, it might be somewhat distracting to others (which is why I don't do it), but since it is the original, official, and most preferred text according to all Church documents (Latin has pride of place), I don't think it is disrespectful by any means.
Presuming, of course, that it's done for the right reasons.
[/quote]



I'm sure you're nowhere near the noise level of the man I was describing

[Laudate_Dominum]

[quote name='IcePrincessKRS' timestamp='1299527164' post='2218885']
I think your situation might be slightly different than the question posed... not sure... from what I understand you are saying prayers, silently, in addition to the normal responses, not substituting them? I was actually thinking along similar lines to what Cmom posted... only I was going to pose it as a question. lol I have been going back and forth on whether or not I feel like it's "disrespectful" or "not appropriate." The question I was going to pose was "would on OF frequenter find it disrespectful if someone attended that form and said the prayers of the EF instead?" On the one hand, I would not discourage silent prayer so if you're praying your OF prayers silently then I can't really find room to take issue with that (I pray silently, too, I just pray different prayers). But if someone were praying it out loud I might find that disruptive and disrespectful. Not because it's in Latin but because it's not a part of that form and can be distracting. If the motives were out of pride (in either instance) I would find that disrespectful. I think totally substituting prayers for either form if you're attending the opposite might not be appropriate... it's not just praying silently then, but changing what is supposed to be said. I wouldn't deign to change what is proper to either form of the Mass. I don't think saying the prayers as they should be is an abuse and therefore shouldn't be changed.

There is more crowding my mind on this but I'm having some trouble clarifying it into written word. If what I am saying seems convoluted I apologize. I am trying to draw a distinction between changing prayers said verbally to that of the opposite form, which I would find disrespectful, and praying them silently, which I do not find disrespectful. I think motive and how it's done factor in tremendously in whether or not this would be disrespectful or inappropriate. If it's silent then it's not so different from me saying Hail Marys to help me focus.
[/quote]
Thank you for this. Totally excellent points. iawtp.