Homosexuals Adopting

[cmotherofpirl]

[quote name='Mr.CatholicCat' timestamp='1299189467' post='2217601']
I agree, right now it is illegal to discriminate against anyone based on gender, martial status, orientation, belief, or otherwise when adopting. [/quote]

Stopping homosexuals from adopting is not discrimination. Discrimination involves rights, and having a child is certainly not a right, so I think it should go back to being illegal, since its a crime against a child.

[Mr.Cat]

[quote name='cmotherofpirl' timestamp='1299190822' post='2217616']Stopping homosexuals from adopting is not discrimination. Discrimination involves rights, and having a child is certainly not a right, so I think it should go back to being illegal, since its a crime against a child.[/quote]I'm done with this topic, but I think I might as well be replying in German. Discrimination does not necessarily involve rights and homosexuals do have rights. You are mixing everything up. But go ahead and tell me that's what I'm doing. Because clearly if I really was advocating for homosexuals to adopt I wouldn't just say it... that would be to clear, concise, and dare I say it... easier?

Edited March 3, 2011 by Mr.CatholicCat

[MithLuin]

What [b]CMom[/b] is saying is that the child has a right to a loving family, but adults do not have a 'right' to adopt children. Children are not pets or commodities to be passed out 'free to a good home.' They are...children, human beings.

[CatholicCid]

Mr.CatholicCat, I know that you have said you are done with the discussion, but I would hope you might have some insight into the article I posted a few pages ago. I haven't had much time to search for other articles, but that was the one article that kept coming to mind involving this topic.

More specifically, looking at the issue of same-sex male couples adopting, I think the article does show the lack of study in there area. Without such evidence or support, it would not seem fair to say that allowing a same-sex male couple to adopt a child is either unharmful or better than state-care. I know you did not make those claims, but I believe they have been accepted by this recent societal "norm", but seems to be an unfounded claim. It would seem almost reckless for society to accept this "norm" without evidence showing its safety.

The issue of same-sex female couples adopting is a bit of a different issue that deserves more research into before arguing, but it is interesting to note the article does notice differences between the children of such couples and heterosexual couples. The question then becomes if these are harmful differences. (I would argue that they are)

[Didacus]

[quote name='Semper Catholic' timestamp='1299104065' post='2217274']
The divorce rate for straight couples is over 50%
[/quote]


What is the divorced rate amongst faithful catholics?

Many numbers added to that stat may be heterosexuals married 3 or 4 times added versus a faithful couple married only once.

I have met with faithful catholic couples who have had serious problems to the point where they seperated and became celibate, but never one who can genuinely proclaim being faithful to the Church and divorced. It is impossible for a faithful catholic to opt for a divorce! Divorce simply does NOT exist in catholicism, it is categorically not an option point blank.

Edited March 3, 2011 by Didacus

[Mr.Cat]

[quote name='MithLuin' timestamp='1299191921' post='2217620']What [b]CMom[/b] is saying is that the child has a right to a loving family, but adults do not have a 'right' to adopt children. Children are not pets or commodities to be passed out 'free to a good home.' They are...children, human beings.[/quote]Respectfully agreed.[quote name='CatholicCid' timestamp='1299191926' post='2217622']Mr.CatholicCat, I know that you have said you are done with the discussion, but I would hope you might have some insight into the article I posted a few pages ago. I haven't had much time to search for other articles, but that was the one article that kept coming to mind involving this topic.[/quote]Slipped my mind, I realized you posted something and I was pleased you found at least something.[quote name='CatholicCid' timestamp='1299191926' post='2217622']More specifically, looking at the issue of same-sex male couples adopting, I think the article does show the lack of study in there area. Without such evidence or support, it would not seem fair to say that allowing a same-sex male couple to adopt a child is either unharmful or better than state-care. I know you did not make those claims, but I believe they have been accepted by this recent societal "norm", but seems to be an unfounded claim. It would seem almost reckless for society to accept this "norm" without evidence showing its safety.[/quote]I think the confusion you are having is a negative claim requires less burden than a positive claim, moreover an extraordinary positive claim.[quote name='CatholicCid' timestamp='1299191926' post='2217622']The issue of same-sex female couples adopting is a bit of a different issue that deserves more research into before arguing, but it is interesting to note the article does notice differences between the children of such couples and heterosexual couples. The question then becomes if these are harmful differences. (I would argue that they are)[/quote]I would have to look at it and I admit I am not an expert. To be fair, convincing me in this matter would be useless because I am indifferent to the matter. It is not relevant to my life.

There is an insufficient majority to change the adoption laws, there is insufficient evidence to force a court to change it, and legally homosexuals have rights.. with a history of being discriminated against so they have legal protections. I don't plan to adopt soon, which I'm definitely not homosexual, so the only thing that advertising this opinion could do is harass homosexuals. Which I think is against Christian charity. I am a very tend to my own yard first kind of guy.

Edited March 3, 2011 by Mr.CatholicCat

[Didacus]

The bottom line in my opinion is that condoning the adoption provides the acceptance of the homosexual lifestyle and induces error as such. The fundamental premise of homosexual 'couples' getting married is the issue here; if you accept the claim that their union is legitimate then adoption by defacto follows, however in reality the homosexual relationship is not a legitimate one - of course that in itself is an entirely different subject.

[Semper Catholic]

[quote name='dominicansoul' timestamp='1299189205' post='2217594']
are you counting your parents in this "majority?"
[/quote]

Both my parents died in car accident when I was 10. I don't know if this was your idea of a stupid joke, but I hope you feel awful about it.

[Socrates]

[quote name='Brother Adam' timestamp='1299187352' post='2217568']
The Catholic Church does not teach the separation of Church and State.[/quote]
True.
And neither does the U.S. Constitution for that matter, common modern left-wing opinion to the contrary.

Much less the absurd idea that Christian morality must never play any part in public life or voting decisions, and that Christian citizens must somehow abandon all considerations of morality at the voting booth.

[b]"Our Constitution was made only for a moral and religious people. It is wholly inadequate to the government of any other." ~ John Adams --October 11, 1798[/b]

Neither were the American founding fathers enamored of democracy.

"Democracies have ever been spectacles of turbulence and contention; have ever been found incompatible with personal security or the rights of property; and have in general been as short in their lives as they have been violent in their death." ~ James Madison

[quote]We also seem to be having Catholic vs Catholic debate about a Catholic topic that is closed to discussion, with Catholics who carry Church Militant tags.

[/quote]
Those tags appear to have become utterly meaningless. (And, yes, I speak as one with a tag.)

[Socrates]

[quote name='cmotherofpirl' timestamp='1299188505' post='2217582']
You make a lot of assumptions, starting with the idea that a foster home is not a home, and that two homosexuals living together consitutes a family. I have yet to see any reason to accept that pairing as a home in which to raise children is superior to a foster home. None. It never has been acceptable, and I see no reason why that should change.
[/quote]
You mean to tell me the Church doesn't teach that we are obligated to always support whatever is the current "general social norm"??

[Socrates]

[quote name='MithLuin' timestamp='1299190396' post='2217611']
Yeah, seriously, back to the topic at hand. As could be asked of the people throughout most of history, 'How Christian are these Christians?" People who do not practice their faith or adhere to the moral principles dictated by it are no more fallen than the rest of humanity...but then, we are all no less fallen than the rest of humanity too, and that's worth bearing in mind. Redemption can be quite a rocky road.

As I see it, the most concerning issue here is that Catholic adoption agencies are being put into an untenable position by the state - allow homosexual couples to adopt, or close your doors. Having all the Catholic adoption agencies shut down is [i]not[/i] a good thing (no matter how you look at it), and having them continue by acquiescing to the demand to place children in homosexual households is also not a good thing.

[url=http://www.catholic.org/featured/headline.php?ID=3985]HERE[/url] is the 2007 letter from Cardinal Murphy-O'Connor of Westminster about the UK's new adoption laws.

In 2008, adoption agencies had to either close their doors or disassociate from the Catholic Church...there was no exemption. [url=http://www.lifesitenews.com/news/archive/ldn/2008/may/08052606]Article here[/url]

By 2010, the last appeal (of the oldest Catholic adoption agency in Leeds) failed. [url=http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2010/08/22/catholic-adoption-agency-_n_689711.html]Article here[/url]

There are now NO Catholic adoption agencies in England. In less than four years...everything was changed.
[/quote]
But isn't that so much better than the horrible Catholic theocracy we've been suffering under back before homosexuals could legally adopt?


As we all know, it's a short step from laws against homosexual adoption and abortion to bringing back the Spanish Inquisition.

(Nobody ever expects it, but it's inevitable.)

[dominicansoul]

[quote name='Semper Catholic' timestamp='1299195998' post='2217653']
Both my parents died in car accident when I was 10. I don't know if this was your idea of a stupid joke, but I hope you feel awful about it.
[/quote]


i'm sorry you lost your parents....but I don't feel bad for making that statement...did you even think about what I said? If you think the majority of straight couples shouldn't be bringing life into the world, then why was it all right for your parents to do it?

Edited March 4, 2011 by dominicansoul

[dominicansoul]

...i don't see how your parents dying when you were ten has anything to do with the asinine statement you made about the majority of heterosexual couples not being fit to bring children into the world...

[havok579257]

[quote name='Mr.CatholicCat' timestamp='1299191097' post='2217617']
I'm done with this topic, but I think I might as well be replying in German. Discrimination does not necessarily involve rights and homosexuals do have rights. You are mixing everything up. But go ahead and tell me that's what I'm doing. Because clearly if I really was advocating for homosexuals to adopt I wouldn't just say it... that would be to clear, concise, and dare I say it... easier?
[/quote]


i didn't know everyone had the inaliable right to adopt. Guess I missed that in the constitution. Life, liberty, pursut of happiness and being able to adopt a child. i'll have to remeber that when the crack heads and men from NAMBLA want to adopt child. we have to do it cause if not its discrimination.

it comes down to asking if 2 men or 2 women can raise a child as good as one man and one women. the answer is no. two men leave the void of a mother figure. two women leave the void of a father figure. the homosexual couple also teaches the children what is against this very nations beliefs. the nation has held true to marriag being one man and one women. the public has spoken numerous times. to suddenly go in the face of the values this country has is wrong. on a purely secular level, until/if this country ever decides homosexual marriage is ok, then you can talk about adopt in secular terms. although until that point adoption by homosexuals in wrong in the secular sense. not to mention in God's eyes.

this country was founded on christian principles. to suddenly change that because a fraction of the population wants to is stupid and goes against everything the founding fathers intended. although the way some people think and talk, they don;t seem to care about what this country was built on, they just care whats considered politically correct by extreme liberal media.

[havok579257]

[quote name='Semper Catholic' timestamp='1299195998' post='2217653']
Both my parents died in car accident when I was 10. I don't know if this was your idea of a stupid joke, but I hope you feel awful about it.
[/quote]


your the one who wrote the statement, don't get mad at the poster because you made an off the wall comment.