Canada Health Care To Starve Innocent Baby.

[Adrestia]

[quote name='Ed Normile' timestamp='1299033902' post='2216999']
Here in America we do not allow the weak or old to die due to lack of funds
[/quote]

False.

Not only do "we" allow the weak and old to die due to lack of funds, "we" also withhold life-saving treatments from the working poor.

In Texas, money has been put aside to treat uninsured women that have breast or cervical cancer. In fact, it's cheaper to have breast or cervical cancer in Texas without health insurance.

The daughter of one of my coworkers has breast cancer, but lives in Virginia. Her job does not come with health insurance, and her income is just high enough to prevent her from qualifying for Medicaid. She can't afford chemotherapy. "We" are allowing her to die.

[cmotherofpirl]

[quote name='tgoldson' timestamp='1299178482' post='2217518']
False.

Not only do "we" allow the weak and old to die due to lack of funds, "we" also withhold life-saving treatments from the working poor.

In Texas, money has been put aside to treat uninsured women that have breast or cervical cancer. In fact, it's cheaper to have breast or cervical cancer in Texas without health insurance.

The daughter of one of my coworkers has breast cancer, but lives in Virginia. Her job does not come with health insurance, and her income is just high enough to prevent her from qualifying for Medicaid. She can't afford chemotherapy. "We" are allowing her to die.
[/quote]
If she quits her job she is then eligible for Medicare and Medicaid.

[cmotherofpirl]

[quote name='havok579257' timestamp='1299167307' post='2217445']
this is a completly distorted view of how the american healthcare system works and is why people think there is nothing wrong with it.

if someone comes to the ER with a live threatening injury, they will treat you and save you life. no different then the canadian healthcare system. if you come to the ER with a non life threatening condition they will treat you also. same with the canadian healthcare system.

so where is the problem with the american healthcare system. the massive problem is when someone leaves the ER. if i have no insurance and go to the ER and get treated for high blood pressure or diabities, the ER will bring my bllod pressure to normal levels and get my blood sugar back to normal levels. they will then write me prescriptions for medications. the problem is without insurance, you can not afford medication for your medical problems. so you are unable to get your medication and eventually your symptoms become serious again and you end up back at step one. its a never ending cycle. someone who has no insurance can never get the PROPER treatment for their medical condition.

also another perfect example is a large portion of the homeless population. a large portion of the homeless population suffer from some mental disorder like schitzophrenia, bi polar, etc. so we pick them up and take them to the ER for treatment. they receive treatment in the ER and then we transport them to a psych facility for further treatment. Eventually they psych facility gets the pt on the correct medication to treat their disorder and the person is discharged and the person is normal now. the problem now is they have a prescription for psych medication but no way to pay for the medication. eventually the medication in there system wears off and the person is back to step one.

i am not even going to go into when someone who needs a life prolonging proocedure but can't afford it so they don't get it all because they don't have insurance.

so please tell me, how this system is so wonderful and the best in the world?
[/quote]
Many of our pharmacies where I live offer many basic perscriptiions for $2 and under, and in my county psych meds for low income patients are paid for by the county if not covered under the $2 program.

[Mark of the Cross]

[quote name='cmotherofpirl' timestamp='1299181082' post='2217527']
Many of our pharmacies where I live offer many basic prescriptions for $2 and under, and in my county psych meds for low income patients are paid for by the county if not covered under the $2 program.
[/quote]

Which country? What's Pgh. Pa? On the mentally interesting forums many Americans complained that they could not afford the high cost of drugs and the only way to get treatment was to go to ER's when things were really bad.
On the thread. I think all health care systems don't require vacuum to some degree. In Oz we have free medical as long as your income is below a certain threshold and all prescription medicines are subsidised, heavily, even the expensive cancer drugs. But private health insurance is a rip off and one time when I had it I was told that if I had it when I went for my operation I would have to pay substantial out of pocket expenses. Whereas if I went public I would pay nothing. Yes I had the option to ignore my insurance. Currently though people die waiting for operations due to lack of facilities and the last time I saw my doctor it took 2 months for the appointment. When I operated on my hand with an angle grinder, I sat in the ER for 4 hours looking at a gaping wound. Finally after having injections the interns decided it was beyond their skill level and let me wait another 2 hours for the GP by which time the anaesthetic had worn off, so I had to go through that again. In some ways we are as bad off as third world countries. Our only advantage is we don't need to worry about how to pay for anything provided we can get it.

Edited March 3, 2011 by Mark of the Cross

[AudreyGrace]

I worked in a pharmacy over a year, so I have a pretty good feel for what insurance tends to cover and what not. What a few posters said above about receiving treatment and then not being able to pay for the prescriptions is true. Time and time again, poor people without insurance would come in with prescriptions for brand-name drugs with no generic. In my experience, I've seen amounts run up to over $1,000. Can they pay for that? Nope. So that starts a whole other problem. At least once every week or two, we had to "undo" a person's order because they could not pay for it. (What especially grinds my gears is when an elderly man cannot afford his ridiculously expensive ear infection drops, while a young woman would come in with her nails done, designer purse, and get free birth control/morning after pill because she somehow had Medicaid, which does cover those medications).
In the cases where someone had no insurance but qualified for Medicaid, it takes a pretty long time to be approved and everything. They often end up a few weeks at least without medication. Then there's the category of people who make justttt above the salary limit for Medicaid who cannot afford other insurance. Also, there's those who live fairly enough above the limit for Medicaid, but have other astronomical bills like child support, alimony, whatever, that cannot afford good insurance that pays for their prescriptions.
Sure, the U.S. might not deny anyone care in hospitals and clinics, but we'll certainly deny them the medication they need afterwards that is necessary to follow-up treatment. Our "great" health care system is great in hospitals and clinics, but that's pretty much where it ends.

[Ed Normile]

[quote name='AudreyGrace' timestamp='1300142005' post='2220732']
I worked in a pharmacy over a year, so I have a pretty good feel for what insurance tends to cover and what not. What a few posters said above about receiving treatment and then not being able to pay for the prescriptions is true. Time and time again, poor people without insurance would come in with prescriptions for brand-name drugs with no generic. In my experience, I've seen amounts run up to over $1,000. Can they pay for that? Nope. So that starts a whole other problem. At least once every week or two, we had to "undo" a person's order because they could not pay for it. (What especially grinds my gears is when an elderly man cannot afford his ridiculously expensive ear infection drops, while a young woman would come in with her nails done, designer purse, and get free birth control/morning after pill because she somehow had Medicaid, which does cover those medications).
In the cases where someone had no insurance but qualified for Medicaid, it takes a pretty long time to be approved and everything. They often end up a few weeks at least without medication. Then there's the category of people who make justttt above the salary limit for Medicaid who cannot afford other insurance. Also, there's those who live fairly enough above the limit for Medicaid, but have other astronomical bills like child support, alimony, whatever, that cannot afford good insurance that pays for their prescriptions.
Sure, the U.S. might not deny anyone care in hospitals and clinics, but we'll certainly deny them the medication they need afterwards that is necessary to follow-up treatment. Our "great" health care system is great in hospitals and clinics, but that's pretty much where it ends.
[/quote]


So you worked in a pharmacy "over a year" and no one told you a thing about the pharmaceutical companies that will cover the costs of meds needed that are too expensive for the person to afford? Thats strange, I first heard of this program twenty years ago while getting an emergency kidney stone removed, it was 42 millimeters and had blocked my urinary tract and caused me to go into renal kidney failure. The meds were over $600 and I could not afford them, I asked for a generic brand, they had none and the pharmacist told me of the aid these companies give, I was approved that afternoon, an excruciating 35 minutes after he made the call. This was after I went to an emergency room and was transferred to a kidney center that had an ESWL machine, the thing that blows up the stone with sound waves, I received the procedure to place a stint in to move the stone up to allow the kidney to drain and start functioning and three days later got the stone blown up. I paid what i could having no insurance, just over four thousand dollars, about a tenth of the total bill, the hospital wrote off the rest. Also if you tell the doctors you are slef pay and can not afford much often they will give you sample packs, enough to cover your needs for free.

When we were young our first child ed had literally dozens of visits each year to the emergency room, he would get bronchitis, pneumonia and ear infections constantly, and always in the middle of the night. We were never refused admittance or treatment, this was in hospitals across most of eastern US from Ohio to Fl. we were able to pay these bills as I work as a contractor and money was good, sometimes in cash, which they offer huge discounts for and others on payments, I know we never waited long as he was a child, I seen hundreds of people with no money, people who could not speak english and they provided interpertors for them, people brought in overdosed with drugs, people arrested for varying offenses and all were treated.

If anyone disputes this, stop by any emergency room during the night and just set there and watch the people who come in, they are processed and looked at by triage staff, usually within 20 minutes and according to their level of emergency, treated, the young and old first as they are the most vulnerable. The procedure is to admit the serious and treat the ones they send home, then they hit you with the bill, and the options you have to pay which are plentiful. I seen a man from russia, who needed a man who worked as a janitor at the hospital to translate for him, at 2:00 am, get treated for the symptoms of a heart attack and give the name John Smith, the admitting nurse never batted an eye.

ed

[AudreyGrace]

[quote name='Ed Normile' timestamp='1300169195' post='2220830']
So you worked in a pharmacy "over a year" and no one told you a thing about the pharmaceutical companies that will cover the costs of meds needed that are too expensive for the person to afford? Thats strange, I first heard of this program twenty years ago while getting an emergency kidney stone removed, it was 42 millimeters and had blocked my urinary tract and caused me to go into renal kidney failure. The meds were over $600 and I could not afford them, I asked for a generic brand, they had none and the pharmacist told me of the aid these companies give, I was approved that afternoon, an excruciating 35 minutes after he made the call. This was after I went to an emergency room and was transferred to a kidney center that had an ESWL machine, the thing that blows up the stone with sound waves, I received the procedure to place a stint in to move the stone up to allow the kidney to drain and start functioning and three days later got the stone blown up. I paid what i could having no insurance, just over four thousand dollars, about a tenth of the total bill, the hospital wrote off the rest. Also if you tell the doctors you are slef pay and can not afford much often they will give you sample packs, enough to cover your needs for free.

When we were young our first child ed had literally dozens of visits each year to the emergency room, he would get bronchitis, pneumonia and ear infections constantly, and always in the middle of the night. We were never refused admittance or treatment, this was in hospitals across most of eastern US from Ohio to Fl. we were able to pay these bills as I work as a contractor and money was good, sometimes in cash, which they offer huge discounts for and others on payments, I know we never waited long as he was a child, I seen hundreds of people with no money, people who could not speak english and they provided interpertors for them, people brought in overdosed with drugs, people arrested for varying offenses and all were treated.

If anyone disputes this, stop by any emergency room during the night and just set there and watch the people who come in, they are processed and looked at by triage staff, usually within 20 minutes and according to their level of emergency, treated, the young and old first as they are the most vulnerable. The procedure is to admit the serious and treat the ones they send home, then they hit you with the bill, and the options you have to pay which are plentiful. I seen a man from russia, who needed a man who worked as a janitor at the hospital to translate for him, at 2:00 am, get treated for the symptoms of a heart attack and give the name John Smith, the admitting nurse never batted an eye.

ed
[/quote]

I'm not arguing that the U.S. is bad at denying health care within hospitals and clinics.. I even agreed by saying it was great that we never deny care in E.R.'s. To your comment about the pharmaceutical companies covering the costs of medicine if people can't afford it... that's ridiculous. From time to time, that might happen. And when it does, they typically only cover a partial of the prescription, not the whole thing. Example: Nexium is a prettyyyy expensive drug. People would come in with prescriptions and we'd sometimes have coupons on hand that we'd allow them to use if they could not afford it (coupons from the company that produces Nexium). However, the company and the insurance company keeps track of how many coupons are used- there is a limit. Not to mention that the coupons are only for certain doses and certain amounts- if a patient's need was for more, well, too bad. I've witnessed it time and time again. Also, last year when my stepdad lost his job and we had no insurance, I still had to get a prescription refilled and payed over $600.00 for it. We didn't get any help. That's the point of free market health care- the companies are not obliged by any law to provide free medications for people as long as they can't afford it.

Sometimes, doctors do give sample packs. For your need at the time, it might have been enough, and I'm glad it was. Each person's case is different, and for others a little baggie of sample meds might not have been enough to get them through their need.

It seems like you've had a lot of luck in your experience with health care. I am glad that in the U.S. I will never be denied care if I bursted into the E.R. with a severed leg or something. It's simply the point that most of the time, hospitals and clinics are where our great system ends. When it comes to follow-up meds or other necessary prescriptions, there's little that can be done for the average American.

[Ed Normile]

[quote name='AudreyGrace' timestamp='1300232087' post='2220987']
I'm not arguing that the U.S. is bad at denying health care within hospitals and clinics.. I even agreed by saying it was great that we never deny care in E.R.'s. [b][i]To your comment about the pharmaceutical companies covering the costs of medicine if people can't afford it... that's ridiculous.[/i][/b] From time to time, that might happen. And when it does, they typically only cover a partial of the prescription, not the whole thing. Example: Nexium is a prettyyyy expensive drug. People would come in with prescriptions and we'd sometimes have coupons on hand that we'd allow them to use if they could not afford it (coupons from the company that produces Nexium). However, the company and the insurance company keeps track of how many coupons are used- there is a limit. Not to mention that the coupons are only for certain doses and certain amounts- if a patient's need was for more, well, too bad. I've witnessed it time and time again. Also, last year when my stepdad lost his job and we had no insurance, I still had to get a prescription refilled and payed over $600.00 for it. We didn't get any help. That's the point of free market health care- the companies are not obliged by any law to provide free medications for people as long as they can't afford it.

Sometimes, doctors do give sample packs. For your need at the time, it might have been enough, and I'm glad it was. Each person's case is different, and for others a little baggie of sample meds might not have been enough to get them through their need.

It seems like you've had a lot of luck in your experience with health care. I am glad that in the U.S. I will never be denied care if I bursted into the E.R. with a severed leg or something. It's simply the point that most of the time, hospitals and clinics are where our great system ends. When it comes to follow-up meds or other necessary prescriptions, there's little that can be done for the average American.
[/quote]

With the comment I underlined above you have accused me of being a liar, shame on you I will not even dignify your baseless accusation by replying with a lie to counter the lie you just posted. I will tell you my son got free Accutane, a prescription costing well over two thousand dollars for the pills alone, plus he had to undergo blood work to make sure it did not affect his organs, this was for cystic nodular acne, not quite life threatening, but definetely disfiguring. I do not know why you have decided to call me a liar but I would not make this up, every pharmeceutical company has programs for meds for people who can not afford them, its even on TV ads, such as Cymbalta which says There is no generic alternative to Cymblata --name of manufacturer-- <-- I can not think of the company name, has programs to help those who can not afford their prescription. I am sure you watch TV, check it out sometime, it would be nice to do so before falsely accusing a person of lying. Are you a canadian? I only ask as I wonder why you are so determined to push your point when its blatantly wrong.

ed

[Ed Normile]

LOL, talk a bout a coincedence !! My son was watching TV when I overheard teh Astra Zeneca pharmeceutical company ad, which states to ask your pharmacist for help for meds you can not afford, so now that I know the name I type into the bing search bar "[b]astra zeneca precsription drug aid program[/b]" which gave me many results, this being one that shows they will help people who can not afford their meds, even cancer meds! [url="http://www.astrazeneca-us.com/help-affording-your-medicines/other-assistance-programs-2010?itemId=7479780"]Astra zeneca patient assistance programs links[/url] here is another one, [url="http://www.rxassist.org/"]RxAssist Patient Assistant program[/url] this is a program sponsored by Astra Zeneca which list ALL THE PHARMECEUTICAL COMPANIES programs they offer for low cost or no cost meds for patients who otherwise can not afford them. This was found in just a few keystrokes, your pharmacy sounds almost criminal in the way they treat the poor, I would seek a new job, by the way I have vindicated myself and you owe me an apology!

Proud to be an American, " Ask and you shall receive, seek and you shall find, knock and it shall be opened to you" the American way.

ed

Edited March 16, 2011 by Ed Normile

[Jesus_lol]

I have to ask Ed, are you high? i really dont see how otherwise to explain a statement like "we in american dont let lack of funds get in the way of medical treatment" when something like 57,000 people die every year from that very same thing., in the USA

In fact, letting people die because they dont have health insurance (or the right insurance!!!) is probably what the American system is best at!

big woop, your ER doesnt turn people away. Neither does canada's, we dont turn anyone away even if they are foreigners. worry about the details later. except when your german friend comes here and bursts her appendix, she eventually has a 700 dollar bill to pay(ask me how i know) after surgery, etc, as opposed to when your friend visiting the states gets dehydrated, is treated and then charged over 10,000$ for 3 IVs and a hospital bed for the night (also, ask me how i know)

many travellers have been stuck in the states after coming down sick on vacation.

many many people in the States have to decide not to be treated because they cannot afford it, including for things that are pretty important, from reattaching limbs to lifesaving transplants. or such things like "your insurance will cover one of your 2 fingers being reattached, which one do you want on there?"
or they go bankrupt from keeping their spouse or child alive.

that never happens in canada.

but sure, your healthcare is WAY AWESOMER.

Edited March 16, 2011 by Jesus_lol

[cmotherofpirl]

If you have a large medical bill you can send the $5 a month and they have to accept it.

[AudreyGrace]

[quote name='Ed Normile' timestamp='1300238153' post='2221022']
With the comment I underlined above you have accused me of being a liar, shame on you I will not even dignify your baseless accusation by replying with a lie to counter the lie you just posted. I will tell you my son got free Accutane, a prescription costing well over two thousand dollars for the pills alone, plus he had to undergo blood work to make sure it did not affect his organs, this was for cystic nodular acne, not quite life threatening, but definetely disfiguring. I do not know why you have decided to call me a liar but I would not make this up, every pharmeceutical company has programs for meds for people who can not afford them, its even on TV ads, such as Cymbalta which says There is no generic alternative to Cymblata --name of manufacturer-- <-- I can not think of the company name, has programs to help those who can not afford their prescription. I am sure you watch TV, check it out sometime, it would be nice to do so before falsely accusing a person of lying. Are you a canadian? I only ask as I wonder why you are so determined to push your point when its blatantly wrong.

ed
[/quote]

Ed, I was not calling you a liar. Never did I say that. The point was that it is ridiculous to say that any and all pharmaceutical companies will pay for your drugs if you can't afford them, which is what you implied.
Ironically, my situation where I had to pay full price for medicine was ALSO for Accutane!! I had acne for over 5 years.. it was awful. I know all about the blood work. In addition to that, I'm a girl, so I had to undergo pregnancy tests every month and be registered with 2 types of birth control. Accutane did not cover MY cost, I never had it for free, nor was I reimbursed. The blood work and other tests also cost money. Also, because my skin is hypoallergenic and super sensitive, I had to get prescription lotion to apply to my face because the Accutane dried out my skin so severely in the first few months. So I guess you got lucky there, it's a prime example of how some benefit from the system more than others.
Again, I was by no means calling YOU a liar... it was just a very one-sided view of the issue. I've worked with plenty of people who could not afford their drugs. You had experience with yourself and your own family, I had experience with over a couple hundred clients minimum. Everyone's situation is different. You might have been eligible for help from the company when you couldn't afford it, but many others (including myself, with the Accutane) were not.
As for the Cymbalta ad, such commercials say "if you have trouble paying for your prescription, Astra Zeneca (or whichever) may be able to help." Keywords: MAY BE able to help. Sometimes they do, many times they don't. P.S. next time, REALLY listen to what the ad tells you.
No, I am not Canadian. I am "pushing" my point because it is not blatantly wrong. I worked in a pharmacy.. I was a clerk and a pharmacy tech. I worked alongside pharmacists and dealt with insurance companies on a daily basis. You might think I'm blatantly wrong, but I know I'm not. You're going off of what you have experienced in your own world, I go off of what I see many many others go through in their circumstances. I wouldn't be pushing my point here if I was wrong. I acknowledge when I am, but do not tell me that even though I spent over a year dealing with this exact issue at my job that I am "blatantly wrong" and have no idea what I'm talking about. It's the other way around.

[emilier98]

[quote name='Lilllabettt' timestamp='1299089225' post='2217178']
You all have heard me tell before about how I've gotten all my medical treatment and surgeries, without insurance, at a hospital that happens to be #2 in the world for my condition. I remember my first doctors appointment, I told the specialist I didn't have insurance, and she literally waved her hand at me: "nah, don't worry, they have programs or something." she did not care about my ability to pay because she was on salary. Her bottom line is not changed by how many patients she sees, how many tests she runs, or whether or not her patients have insurance.

Imo, that is how medical care should be delivered: on salary.
[/quote]

If there were a like button, I would like your post. I wish that it was the way you describe it.

[havok579257]

[quote name='cmotherofpirl' timestamp='1300254796' post='2221098']
If you have a large medical bill you can send the $5 a month and they have to accept it.
[/quote]


if your bill is 10,000 and you send 5 a month how long do you think it will take to pay it off. the hospitals will not let you set up a payment plan that you will finish paying off 166 years later. doesn't work that way.

[havok579257]

[quote name='Ed Normile' timestamp='1300239453' post='2221027']
LOL, talk a bout a coincedence !! My son was watching TV when I overheard teh Astra Zeneca pharmeceutical company ad, which states to ask your pharmacist for help for meds you can not afford, so now that I know the name I type into the bing search bar "[b]astra zeneca precsription drug aid program[/b]" which gave me many results, this being one that shows they will help people who can not afford their meds, even cancer meds! [url="http://www.astrazeneca-us.com/help-affording-your-medicines/other-assistance-programs-2010?itemId=7479780"]Astra zeneca patient assistance programs links[/url] here is another one, [url="http://www.rxassist.org/"]RxAssist Patient Assistant program[/url] this is a program sponsored by Astra Zeneca which list ALL THE PHARMECEUTICAL COMPANIES programs they offer for low cost or no cost meds for patients who otherwise can not afford them. This was found in just a few keystrokes, your pharmacy sounds almost criminal in the way they treat the poor, I would seek a new job, by the way I have vindicated myself and you owe me an apology!

Proud to be an American, " Ask and you shall receive, seek and you shall find, knock and it shall be opened to you" the American way.

ed
[/quote]


pharmacies work that way, so do hospitals. you just don't understand how the medical field works. cause if it worked the way you think it does nearly all of the homeless problem would be solved in america. cause a huge portion of the homeless population is psych related. refute my previous posts if your so vindicated.

free market healthcare is one of the worst ideas in america. Jesus instructed us to help the sick. yet we refuse to help the sick because our system is ruined.