CatherineM Posted March 2, 2011 Share Posted March 2, 2011 [quote name='Ed Normile' timestamp='1299039353' post='2217026'] Okay, so if we call a post-op transgender person who has just had the ole plumbing cut off and taken the hormone therapy to grow the mammories to look like a woman, sir or dude, most likely insulting and enraging them, that would be an act that God would somehow be more satisfied with? Or are you saying that we should be more intellectually proud of ourselves that we did not affirm their sickness by coalescing with their delusion? ed [/quote] Just to clarify, they don't cut it off. They slice and invert it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ed Normile Posted March 2, 2011 Share Posted March 2, 2011 [quote name='CatherineM' timestamp='1299041229' post='2217039'] Just to clarify, they don't cut it off. They slice and invert it. [/quote] Really Catherine, and what do they do with the testicles? ed Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CatherineM Posted March 2, 2011 Share Posted March 2, 2011 [quote name='Ed Normile' timestamp='1299041393' post='2217041'] Really Catherine, and what do they do with the testicles? ed [/quote] I hope they don't serve them in the hospital cafeteria. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Luigi Posted March 2, 2011 Share Posted March 2, 2011 [quote name='Ad Majorem Dei Gloriam' timestamp='1299036547' post='2217013'] Everyone hates on pronouns and don't give them the cred they deserve until people can't use them anymore. [/quote] I'm [i]crazy[/i] for pronouns! And mine [i]always [/i]agree in gender and number. I agree that God doesn't make mistakes, and I agree that transgender-ing is an indication of psychological trouble; but when I deal with a transgendered person, I'm not usually in missionary mode (s/he probably wouldn't be open to a theological discussion with me anyway), and I'm never providing psychological services. So, functionally, I call them what I need to - the first one I met was named Erica, and I referred to her as she. Some time after I met her, I learned she had been married and fathered two children. But she was always a she to me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CatherineM Posted March 2, 2011 Share Posted March 2, 2011 Could be worse. At least common objects don't have gender in English like they do in French or Spanish. What would we call a pencil in Spanish that changed gender? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Luigi Posted March 2, 2011 Share Posted March 2, 2011 [quote name='CatherineM' timestamp='1299046175' post='2217075'] Could be worse. At least common objects don't have gender in English like they do in French or Spanish. What would we call a pencil in Spanish that changed gender? [/quote] An eyebrow pencil? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Semper Catholic Posted March 2, 2011 Share Posted March 2, 2011 There are many people who are mentally off. Call someone what they want to be called. You wouldn't call the Pope Joe would you? certainly different circumstances but the point is the same. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PaladinSoG Posted March 2, 2011 Share Posted March 2, 2011 [quote name='CatherineM' timestamp='1299041852' post='2217045'] I hope they don't serve them in the hospital cafeteria. [/quote] So what would those be, surely not rocky mountain oysters? :D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MissyP89 Posted March 2, 2011 Share Posted March 2, 2011 One of my very dear friends is transgendered, born a female but now identifying as male. I am the only Christian that hasn't shunned him. He's been called a lot of names, a lot of them impolite. Do I understand why he's doing this? No. But he will always be that person, that soul that I have known for years whom God has put in my path. And I'm not going risk losing him by throwing gender issues in his face. I listen, ask questions, and pray. That's all I know to do. That may be an unpopular thing to say here, but I'll stand by it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kujo Posted March 4, 2011 Share Posted March 4, 2011 [quote name='PaladinSoG' timestamp='1299047121' post='2217084'] So what would those be, surely not rocky mountain oysters? :D [/quote] Perhaps San Francisco Clams? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cmotherofpirl Posted March 4, 2011 Share Posted March 4, 2011 [quote name='MissyP89' timestamp='1299051411' post='2217091'] One of my very dear friends is transgendered, born a female but now identifying as male. I am the only Christian that hasn't shunned him. He's been called a lot of names, a lot of them impolite. Do I understand why he's doing this? No. But he will always be that person, that soul that I have known for years whom God has put in my path. And I'm not going risk losing him by throwing gender issues in his face. I listen, ask questions, and pray. That's all I know to do. That may be an unpopular thing to say here, but I'll stand by it. [/quote] Seeing with a clear heart is never a bad thing Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OnlySunshine Posted March 4, 2011 Share Posted March 4, 2011 [quote name='MaterMisericordiae' timestamp='1299016098' post='2216908'] That's a very tricky subject. Biologically and genetically, they are a woman and God made them as such. Usually, I refer to transgender persons as "it" because they don't identify with their proper gender (not to their face, of course). I would have a very difficult time referring to a woman who had gender reassignment surgery as "he." Just like Chasity Bono ("Chaz"). Chaz is always a woman to me, no matter what she looks like. That's just my opinion. I am politically incorrect, I know, but I personally believe God does not make mistakes and does not assign a woman or a man the wrong body. I believe it is a psychological disorder and nothing more. [/quote] I believe I may have been a little blunt and condescending in this post and I apologize if I've offended anyone. I honestly don't know how to refer to transgender individuals because I've never met one, at least, not that I know of. I would hope that if I did meet one, I would treat them with the respect and dignity they deserve--just as every human being deserves respect and dignity. I still stand by my statement that it is a psychological disorder, but that doesn't change the fact that they are confused children of God. Each and every one of them has my prayers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kujo Posted March 4, 2011 Share Posted March 4, 2011 This is one area in which I struggle to be a steward of God's love. My good friend works with an LGBT group and was trying to explain this to me the other day. He says that the transgendered are being done a disservice by including their issues with those of the gay community. These people, according to him, are not homosexual; they believe that they are a man or a woman despite having the opposite physical "parts." So when they undergo these costly, dangerous procedures, they aren't having "elective" or cosmetic surgeries, they're correcting a physical wrong to make up for their emotional condition. I think about that dichotomy--between what I believe is my gender/sex and what my body says in my gender/sex. Luckily for me, I have everything I need to be considered a man (not the least of which is a set of XY chromosomes); however, what if that weren't the case? What if by some biological happenstance, I came out with none of these parts, or a mix of them? What if, at some point, they became mutilated and my parents decided to raise me as something that, biologically, I'm not? These are the sort of questions which should be the in back of our minds when discussing this issue and while interacting with members of this community. In all likelihood, it is not their fault, or of their choosing, to be the way they are. They're bearing their cross, the same way you and I bear ours. Thankfully, most of my crosses are unseen by the public and only affect me, on a day to day basis. On the other hand, these poor souls have to look in the mirror and see someone that everything in their entire being knows is NOT who they are. It's very very sad. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
let_go_let_God Posted March 4, 2011 Share Posted March 4, 2011 I have two friends that consider themselves Transgendered. More often than not I refer to them by their birth gender, male, rather than female. The only time I refer to them as feminine is when they are making the attempt to act as such. The other point I have made with them is that they know why I don't approve of their behavior, and that there are choices they make that I can't support them in. I am just a friend who they can talk to and have someone who will listen to them. They have my prayers, and my friendship but they do not have my support in this decision. God bless- LGLG Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sternhauser Posted March 4, 2011 Share Posted March 4, 2011 [quote name='Ed Normile' timestamp='1299039353' post='2217026'] Okay, so if we call a post-op transgender person who has just had the ole plumbing cut off and taken the hormone therapy to grow the mammories to look like a woman, sir or dude, most likely insulting and enraging them, that would be an act that God would somehow be more satisfied with? Or are you saying that we should be more intellectually proud of ourselves that we did not affirm their sickness by coalescing with their delusion? ed [/quote] You know, my goal is not to please everyone. I will be charitable. But I will not deny reality. Heather does not have two mommies. This 4-year old boy is a martyr for the truth. He refused to call one of his caretakers "daddy," and they beat him to death. http://www.iol.co.za/news/south-africa/lesbian-couple-guilty-of-gruesome-murder-1.270415 So yes, stating the truth with charity may enrage someone and result in death. But the alternative is unacceptable. ~Sternhauser Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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