How Should One Refer To A Trangender Person?

[Shana]

I have a question. Say if you are aquainted with a woman who identifies as a man, and has even undergone sexual reassignment surgery or drugs, how should you refer to them (particularly in person). Would you say "he" so as not to be devisive or "she". If they legally changed their name to a male name, would it be okay to refer to them by it?

Anyone know of any material that has been written about this?

Edited March 1, 2011 by Shana

[OnlySunshine]

That's a very tricky subject. Biologically and genetically, they are a woman and God made them as such. Usually, I refer to transgender persons as "it" because they don't identify with their proper gender (not to their face, of course). I would have a very difficult time referring to a woman who had gender reassignment surgery as "he." Just like Chasity Bono ("Chaz"). Chaz is always a woman to me, no matter what she looks like. That's just my opinion. I am politically incorrect, I know, but I personally believe God does not make mistakes and does not assign a woman or a man the wrong body. I believe it is a psychological disorder and nothing more.

[OnlySunshine]

Here is a link from the reputable National Catholic Bioethics Center:

[url="http://www.ncbcenter.org/NetCommunity/Page.aspx?pid=1039"]FAQ on Gender Identity Disorder and "Sex Change" Operations[/url]

[Lilllabettt]

The solution to this problem is to use the old feminist trick (they are good for something) of using "their" or "they" or "them" instead of "he/she". Shana you did this in your post, when you wrote "If [i]they[/i] legally changed[i] their[/i] name to a male name, would it be okay to refer to [i]them[/i] by it?" instead of "if he/she legally changed his/her name, would it be okay to refer to him/her by it?" (In answer to this question: I see no problem calling people by the name they wish for themselves. The "gender" of names is always in flux. Lyndsey, Ashley, etc. were all originally boy names. I am babysitting a girl named Aaron.)

Personally I would not refer to anyone as an "it," to their face or not. Its too dehumanizing.

Edited March 1, 2011 by Lilllabettt

[AudreyGrace]

[quote name='Lilllabettt' timestamp='1299017959' post='2216922']
The solution to this problem is to use the old feminist trick (they are good for something) of using "their" or "they" or "them" instead of "he/she". Shana you did this in your post, when you wrote "If [i]they[/i] legally changed[i] their[/i] name to a male name, would it be okay to refer to [i]them[/i] by it?" instead of "if he/she legally changed his/her name, would it be okay to refer to him/her by it?" (In answer to this question: I see no problem calling people by the name they wish for themselves. The "gender" of names is always in flux. Lyndsey, Ashley, etc. were all originally boy names. I am babysitting a girl named Aaron.)

Personally I would not refer to anyone as an "it," to their face or not. Its too dehumanizing.
[/quote]

iawtc.

You could also call them by their legal name and ditch the pronouns.

[Ed Normile]

How about poor misguided thing? Naw, just joking, but these people are in my opinion mentally off. How would I refer to them just to be kind I would refer to them in person as whatever they are trying to affect, he/she or whatever jst so as not to upset them.

I also feel that people who are so vain they undergo nose jobs, face lifts, boob jobs and liposuction are mentally off too.

ed

[OnlySunshine]

[quote name='Ed Normile' timestamp='1299032149' post='2216989']
I also feel that people who are so vain they undergo nose jobs, face lifts, boob jobs and liposuction are mentally off too.

ed
[/quote]

iawtc

[CatherineM]

I typically take people where they are. I had a 6', very ugly man come in my office once in a sundress, and introduce himself as Shirley. I called him Shirley. It allowed him to trust me with information that he needed to talk with someone about.

Plus, I had two clients who weren't transgendered by choice. One was a female who was born with indeterminate sex, and lived most of her life without knowing which sex she actually was, and came to me for help. The second was born a boy, but had a accident during circumcision. His parents raised him as a girl, and he didn't find out what had really happened to him until he turned 18. Then he wanted to sue everyone in sight to get the money to be reconstructed, at least as far as was possible.

[Lil Red]

[quote name='CatherineM' timestamp='1299033748' post='2216998']
Plus, I had two clients who weren't transgendered by choice. One was a female who was born with indeterminate sex, and lived most of her life without knowing which sex she actually was, and came to me for help. The second was born a boy, but had a accident during circumcision. His parents raised him as a girl, and he didn't find out what had really happened to him until he turned 18. Then he wanted to sue everyone in sight to get the money to be reconstructed, at least as far as was possible.
[/quote]
how awful! i pray for such persons, because they truly have a cross to bear.

[CatherineM]

He never found any peace, and committed suicide several years later. They really are broken in ways the rest of us just can't imagine.

[Sternhauser]

[quote name='Lilllabettt' timestamp='1299017959' post='2216922']
The solution to this problem is to use the old feminist trick (they are good for something) of using "their" or "they" or "them" instead of "he/she". Shana you did this in your post, when you wrote "If [i]they[/i] legally changed[i] their[/i] name to a male name, would it be okay to refer to [i]them[/i] by it?" instead of "if he/she legally changed his/her name, would it be okay to refer to him/her by it?" (In answer to this question: I see no problem calling people by the name they wish for themselves. The "gender" of names is always in flux. Lyndsey, Ashley, etc. were all originally boy names. I am babysitting a girl named Aaron.)

Personally I would not refer to anyone as an "it," to their face or not. Its too dehumanizing.
[/quote]

Nouns and pronouns must agree in number and gender. We must be grammatically correct. : )

Which is better, denying God and reality, or condescendingly affirming the individual in his or her distortion of reality?

~Sternhauser

Edited March 2, 2011 by Sternhauser

[Lil Red]

[quote name='CatherineM' timestamp='1299035043' post='2217002']
He never found any peace, and committed suicide several years later. They really are broken in ways the rest of us just can't imagine.
[/quote]
i will pray for his soul tonight.

[Groo the Wanderer]

confused

[Ad Majorem Dei Gloriam]

Everyone hates on pronouns and don't give them the cred they deserve until people can't use them anymore.

[Ed Normile]

[quote name='Sternhauser' timestamp='1299035074' post='2217004']
Nouns and pronouns must agree in number and gender. We must be grammatically correct. : )

Which is better, denying God and reality, or condescendingly affirming the individual in his or her distortion of reality?

~Sternhauser
[/quote]

Okay, so if we call a post-op transgender person who has just had the ole plumbing cut off and taken the hormone therapy to grow the mammories to look like a woman, sir or dude, most likely insulting and enraging them, that would be an act that God would somehow be more satisfied with? Or are you saying that we should be more intellectually proud of ourselves that we did not affirm their sickness by coalescing with their delusion?

ed