Times Less

[fides' Jack]

Okay - I grow weary of hearing the words "times less," as in, 5 is 2 times less than 10. While it may be grammatically correct (not saying it is or it isn't), it's just confusing. I think it's only become a standard because it is used so much. But what's wrong with saying instead, "5 is half of 10?"

I know a lot of people have issues with it based on the math involved; they seem to think that the same phrase equates to "5=2 X -10". I don't agree. I think since it is really only used in spoken language, and people generally know what is meant by it, that argument doesn't fly.

On the other hand, however, I do think that there is definitely a logic error somewhere. When we say "10 is 5 times 2," we start with the number 5, which is counting up from 0 by 5 units. Then we multiply that by 2. However, when we say "5 is 2 times less than 10," we necessarily have to start with 10. Since we looking for a number less than ten, I think we have to start by counting to 10 from above it, and since numbers go on forever, we're counting down from infinity.

Maybe that doesn't make sense. At the very least, I think we should say, "5 is 2 times FEWER than 10."

Just my thoughts...

[TeresaBenedicta]

Haha, I had never considered it before. "Times less" doesn't bother me much, though. I suppose I even use at times.

[MIKolbe]

[MithLuin]

I don't understand what the problem is, grammatically or mathematically.

[fides' Jack]

The problem is that it just doesn't make sense. "It's 10 times less likely to happen this way." I know what it's supposed to mean, but that's not really what it means.

I must say that it does bother me, even if my meaning at this time is more jovial.

[sixpence]

its ok

[BG45]

I don't think I've ever heard anyone use the phrase.

[Luigi]

You're right - it's probably grammatically correct but it's logically incorrect. And logic (mathematical logic, in this case) takes precedence over grammar, the function of which is to make the logical relationships of the parts of sentence clear in order to make the real-world logical relationships clear when we discuss them in speech or writing.

"It's ten times less likely to happen this way" is called a back formation; people hear "It's ten times more likely to happen this way" and they figure they can substitute any comparable quantifier. But doing so reveals their lack of understanding of mathematical logic.

[Nihil Obstat]

I just use fractions or percentages. Much more precise.

[Deus te Amat]

As a math ninja, I vote no.