First Responders At Mass

[JenDeMaria]

At the 11:30 Mass, today, I noticed a young man stride briskly out the chapel door between the Offeratory and the first words of the Liturgy of the Eucharist. Just before the congregation prepared to stand up and receive Holy Communion, he came back with EMTs. Apparently, a young lady had passed out in the pew about 6 or 7 up from my own. I had no idea what had happened until I walked past her pew on my way to receive and noticed her lift her arm for the EMT to place a blood-pressure cuff. She was waxy white but obviously breathing and responding to the EMT and I felt a huge surge of relief. I said a quick prayer to Our Lady for her and refocused myself on the Liturgy.

But I couldn't help wondering, what would have happened if the young lady had been having a heart attack? I'm a trained First Responder through my work and have 5 years of annual AED training and 7 years of CPR/First Aid. But I'm having trouble imagining how this scenario would have played out even if I'd have known what was going on much earlier. For one thing, all my training involves a lot of, well, if not yelling, then clearly enunciated and audible commandeering of bystanders. "I need everyone to stand clear! Who has a cell phone?! [i]You![/i] Call 911 and go stand outside to meet the EMTs. [i]You![/i] Go grab the AED and bring it to me quickly!" etc. Obviously, this would not be the reverent, hushed behavior appropriate for an ongoing Mass.

Does Protecting God's Children involve AED/CPR training? Do you know, are the ushers or other individuals at your parish trained to handle these sorts of scenarios?

And what would you do?

Edited February 20, 2011 by JenDeMaria

[Sternhauser]

[quote name='JenDeMaria' timestamp='1298227268' post='2214143']
At the 11:30 Mass, today, I noticed a young man stride briskly out the chapel door between the Offeratory and the first words of the Liturgy of the Eucharist. Just before the congregation prepared to stand up and receive Holy Communion, he came back with EMTs. Apparently, a young lady had passed out in the pew about 6 or 7 up from my own. I had no idea what had happened until I walked past her pew on my way to receive and noticed her lift her arm for the EMT to place a blood-pressure cuff. She was waxy white but obviously breathing and responding to the EMT and I felt a huge surge of relief. I said a quick prayer to Our Lady for her and refocused myself on the Liturgy.

But I couldn't help wondering, what would have happened if the young lady had been having a heart attack? I'm a trained First Responder through my work and have 5 years of annual AED training and 7 years of CPR/First Aid. But I'm having trouble imagining how this scenario would have played out even if I'd have known what was going on much earlier. For one thing, all my training involves a lot of, well, if not yelling, then clearly enunciated and audible commandeering of bystanders. "I need everyone to stand clear! Who has a cell phone?! [i]You![/i] Call 911 and go stand outside to meet the EMTs. [i]You![/i] Go grab the AED and bring it to me quickly!" etc. Obviously, this would not be the reverent, hushed behavior appropriate for an ongoing Mass.

Does Protecting God's Children involve AED/CPR training? Do you know, are the ushers or other individuals at your parish trained to handle these sorts of scenarios?

And what would you do?
[/quote]

God don't want people dyin' at Mass. You do what you have to do.

~Sternhauser

Edited February 20, 2011 by Sternhauser

[CatherineM]

That has happened twice here. One was an older woman that the EMT's took away, and the other a teenage boy who passed out in the heat. Our parish is designed to keep heat in, and in summer it can get kind of hot. I don't know about the older woman. I don't know who called or anything because it was handled really quietly on the other side of the church. The boy was on our side, and his mom started screaming right in the middle of the consecration. Our pianist is a nurse, and she went over to deal with it. He was fine, just got too hot. My husband has been trying to get the Knights of Columbus to raise funds to buy those automatic defibrillators for every parish.

[havok579257]

[quote name='JenDeMaria' timestamp='1298227268' post='2214143']
At the 11:30 Mass, today, I noticed a young man stride briskly out the chapel door between the Offeratory and the first words of the Liturgy of the Eucharist. Just before the congregation prepared to stand up and receive Holy Communion, he came back with EMTs. Apparently, a young lady had passed out in the pew about 6 or 7 up from my own. I had no idea what had happened until I walked past her pew on my way to receive and noticed her lift her arm for the EMT to place a blood-pressure cuff. She was waxy white but obviously breathing and responding to the EMT and I felt a huge surge of relief. I said a quick prayer to Our Lady for her and refocused myself on the Liturgy.

But I couldn't help wondering, what would have happened if the young lady had been having a heart attack? I'm a trained First Responder through my work and have 5 years of annual AED training and 7 years of CPR/First Aid. But I'm having trouble imagining how this scenario would have played out even if I'd have known what was going on much earlier. For one thing, all my training involves a lot of, well, if not yelling, then clearly enunciated and audible commandeering of bystanders. "I need everyone to stand clear! Who has a cell phone?! [i]You![/i] Call 911 and go stand outside to meet the EMTs. [i]You![/i] Go grab the AED and bring it to me quickly!" etc. Obviously, this would not be the reverent, hushed behavior appropriate for an ongoing Mass.

Does Protecting God's Children involve AED/CPR training? Do you know, are the ushers or other individuals at your parish trained to handle these sorts of scenarios?

And what would you do?
[/quote]


i am a paramedic. we run a lot of people who pass out or faint at churches.

if this situation ever occurs, do everything and anything in your power to save the persons life. when you die God will not ask you why you screamed in his church and disrubted mass just to save one of his childrens life.

although if you do nothing, God will ask you why, when you had the power, did you not save one of his children.

[havok579257]

[quote name='CatherineM' timestamp='1298228638' post='2214148']
That has happened twice here. One was an older woman that the EMT's took away, and the other a teenage boy who passed out in the heat. Our parish is designed to keep heat in, and in summer it can get kind of hot. I don't know about the older woman. I don't know who called or anything because it was handled really quietly on the other side of the church. The boy was on our side, and his mom started screaming right in the middle of the consecration. Our pianist is a nurse, and she went over to deal with it. He was fine, just got too hot. My husband has been trying to get the Knights of Columbus to raise funds to buy those automatic defibrillators for every parish.
[/quote]


good for your husband. every church, heck every place where lots of people gather should have aed's. they will save people's life.

[Mercy me]

[quote name='Sternhauser' timestamp='1298228482' post='2214147']
God don't want people dyin' at Mass. You do what you have to do.

~Sternhauser
[/quote]

Is there a better place to die? I say this because it happened at a parish that I attended.

I think that the situation that you described was handled perfectly and apparently respectfully. It sounds like you saw an example of how it should be don't.

[JenDeMaria]

[quote name='Mercy me' timestamp='1298230543' post='2214157']
Is there a better place to die? I say this because it happened at a parish that I attended.

I think that the situation that you described was handled perfectly and apparently respectfully. It sounds like you saw an example of how it should be don't.
[/quote]


You're right, there probably isn't a better place to die. Though, personally, I'd probably rather die during the closing hymn so that I'd disturb the least number of faithful, possible!

And given the situation, I do think it was handled rather well. I think our pastor and the presiding deacon were a little uncertain, but just kept right on with the Mass. I found myself wondering if the situation might have seemed surreal to the EMTs. If I had been attending a Protestant Church service, they probably would have taken a break!

In a situation requiring an AED it would not have been possible to have been so discreet, if only because the defibrillator (the shocking device with the paddles that you attach to a patient's chest and then shout "Clear!" while it restarts their heart with a zap of electricity more powerful than the juice in a car battery) requires a significant amount of space around the vicitm, which would entail clearing a whole pew. It also requires a certain amount of fairly robust CPR.

Having an AED is a big deal. Once a persons heart stops, they have a matter of minutes before their life expectancy drops to roughly 10 percent and plummets dramatically every minute thereafter. CPR can help keep the blood and oxygen flowing through a persons system, but it will not restart a heart. The use of an AED, on the other hand, can increase a persons survival rate by 90%.

I might simply ask a few people at my parish if we have a plan in place in case someone does pass out during the Mass or any other church event. It seems like it would be a good idea to have 3 or 4 First Responders at every Mass, but I don't know how that would be possible, unless it would be a required course for everyone involved in the parish from the Catechists to the Choir to the ushers, and that probably wouldn't be very reasonable!

Thanks for the responses!

[Winchester]

Don't yell. There's no reason to yell.

Drag them out of the pew. You're not doing good compressions in a cramped area.

Don't yell. No yelling. Ever.

[Sternhauser]

[quote name='Mercy me' timestamp='1298230543' post='2214157']
Is there a better place to die? I say this because it happened at a parish that I attended.
[/quote]

I dunno: in the confessional, right after confession? At least they wouldn't be singing something out of tune at that point. I'd hate to die surrounded by people singing out of tune. Catholics sing out of tune.

~Sternhauser

Edited February 20, 2011 by Sternhauser

[Ed Normile]

[quote name='Sternhauser' timestamp='1298239863' post='2214184']
I dunno: in the confessional, right after confession? At least they wouldn't be singing something out of tune at that point. I'd hate to die surrounded by people singing out of tune. Catholics sing out of tune.

~Sternhauser
[/quote]


Not as far out of tune as Anarchists !!

ed

[havok579257]

[quote name='Winchester' timestamp='1298234879' post='2214170']
Don't yell. There's no reason to yell.

Drag them out of the pew. You're not doing good compressions in a cramped area.

Don't yell. No yelling. Ever.
[/quote]


come on winchester, don't you remember what they taught us in emt class. yell, direct and yell some more. if you yell loud enough you can even start the heart again.

[MIKolbe]

i think that's really cold ice water.. i saw it on ER

[havok579257]

[quote name='MIkolbe' timestamp='1298241400' post='2214195']
i think that's really cold ice water.. i saw it on ER
[/quote]


absolutly. anything seen on er, scrubs, greys anatomy, mercy or dr. quin medicane women could really be done in real life. that is why they make these shows. to better inform the public.

[Lil Red]

[quote name='Winchester' timestamp='1298234879' post='2214170']
Don't yell. There's no reason to yell.

Drag them out of the pew. You're not doing good compressions in a cramped area.

Don't yell. No yelling. Ever.
[/quote]
so, just to be clear what's your position on yelling in this instance?

[Sternhauser]

[quote name='Ed Normile' timestamp='1298240118' post='2214185']
Not as far out of tune as Anarchists !!

ed
[/quote]

You should hear the Internationale sung in any language, by any gang of of young, sulky, black-clad molotov-chuckers. The socialis, er, "anarchist" anthem. Commies sing pretty well.

~Sternhauser