Wet Houses...good Or Bad Idea

[Lil Red]

[url="http://www.twincities.com/ci_16774107?nclick_check=1"]Here's the article.[/url]

An excerpt:
[quote]That's why he feels lucky to live in a hospice for alcoholics — St. Anthony Residence in St. Paul. There, 60 men can — and often do — drink until they die.

There are no counselors, no scolding, no 12-step programs, no group hugs. Just the love of Hagerman's life, waiting for him every day — alcohol.

On his weeklong binges, he chugs vodka, beer or mouthwash. They are interchangeable to him, he said, gazing around his 12-by-12-foot concrete apartment.

"I drink," he said quietly, "until I kill the beaver dam day off."

For three years, St. Anthony has been operated by Ramsey County, St. Paul, the state of Minnesota and Catholic Charities, at a cost of $18,000 per person per year. It's one of four so-called "wet houses" in the state.

Like a growing number of wet houses across the country, it allows alcoholics to drink, even when it's killing them.

Some experts attack places like St. Anthony. "To me, a wet house is nothing more than a house of despair and death," said William C. Moyers, vice president of foundation relations for Hazelden treatment centers.

"It is never too late for someone to get help," Moyers said. "Just because there are people who have been through treatment before does not mean we can write them off."

But the men staying at St. Anthony say alcohol isn't just a habit — it is who they are. If any kind of treatment were required, they would return to a homeless life of fear, disease and tremendous public expense.

It's not uncommon for a homeless alcoholic to cost the public more than $1 million during decades of drinking — for multiple jail stays, emergency room visits, rounds of alcoholism treatment and other costs.

But the costs and the suffering are greatly reduced once they arrive at St. Anthony.

"This place is a godsend," said 61-year-old Ron, a 40-year alcoholic and former South Dakota farmer who didn't want his last name published.

He plans — as much as he plans anything — to drink until he dies at St. Anthony.

"I am happy here," he said.[/quote]

[quote]The alcoholics arrive at the 3-year-old building, which looks like a modern twin-tower hotel out of place in an industrial park. There's no sign outside.

Inside, each room is like a minimum-security jail cell, with one light on a wall, one window and concrete floors, walls and ceilings.

They arrive as refugees of countless anti-drinking treatments.

"Treatment is a bunch of B.S.," snapped Ricky Isaac, a three-year resident, as he drank a beer on the center's drinking patio.

"Those AA (Alcoholics Anonymous) people make me sick. I hate hearing about other people's problems. I have my own problems. If you want to quit, you quit on your own."

They rebel against the chirpy optimism of abstinence-based programs: Try harder. Pray. Ask for help. Don't give up. We feel your pain.

In contrast, St. Anthony feels like Death Row. The message is refreshingly grim: Everyone is going to keep drinking, it's probably going to kill them, and no one's going to talk them out of it.[/quote]

[quote]Once alcoholics become residents, the police know their names. If one is found passed out in a park, the police simply return him to St. Anthony — no ambulances, hospitals or trips to detox.

If needed, residents get medical care from an in-house nurse. If they get sick, they go to a hospital.

And when they get extremely sick?

There's an in-house hospice service. Three to five residents die every year.

Resident Wayne Britton, 59, who has 12 DWI convictions, recalled the death of his best friend, Dave, from throat cancer in 2008. In his final days, Dave was given food and alcohol in his room.

"He would send for me and say, 'Come in and have a bump with me,' " said Britton, sadly shaking his head. They sipped vodka together, which Britton said the dying man found comforting.[/quote]

[quote]Jan Hennings, spokeswoman for the Minnesota Hospital Association, questioned whether the wet-house model was humane. "I know some people would say we should keep trying — eight times or whatever — until we break through," she said.

But other experts say the bottomless optimism is naive.

The St. Anthony model accepts the obvious — that a certain number of alcoholics are indeed hopeless, said Katie Tuione, program manager at Dorothy Day Center in St. Paul, a homeless shelter.

"This is about meeting people where they are and loving them. It's not rocket science," she said. "They still grieve, love and hurt. They still need food and shelter. They are you and I."

Dr. Steven Miles, professor of medicine and bioethics at the University of Minnesota, agreed.

The reason to support St. Anthony is not the money saved but the kindness extended to the residents. "It is the humanity of it, just like humanity drives the hospice system," he said.

He said seeing people drink themselves to death is like watching chemotherapy patients gathering outside hospitals to smoke.

"Certainly no one encourages them to do this. But this is a society where people get to make their own choices, however bad they are," Miles said. St. Anthony's, he said, "is a rational response to meeting people's needs."

The approach, manager Hockenberger said, isn't treatment at all, but a "harm-reduction model."[/quote]

[quote]And the harm is indeed reduced. Housing the homeless slashes use of hospitals and emergency rooms by 50 percent to 75 percent, according to studies cited by Hearth Connection, a nonprofit group that fights homelessness in Minnesota.

Studies in Seattle, Denver and New York City have concluded that providing housing to homeless people with chronic health conditions — common among alcoholics — cuts time in jail and detox by up to 75 percent.

At St. Anthony, the men are healthier because of the on-staff nurse. She monitors their medications for such diseases as diabetes. Officials know the men and their conditions — so they don't have to rely on emergency rooms for routine care.

St. Anthony residents say the housing quells the anger that homeless people feel. When the men feel cared for — even loved — they aren't as likely to hurt others and themselves.

"This place is different. The staff is great. They are like brothers," said resident Isaac, a 30-year alcoholic who has served time for assault. "It's called respect."[/quote]

there's more at the link, but i find the whole concept very depressing. thoughts?

[dairygirl4u2c]

is so blatantly drinking to you die essentially suicide? if it is, then is it any different than giving people a place to go commit suicide?
it'd be like the downloading music and napster type situations... is it more giving them a medium to do what they willl, or actively cooperating with the sin?
actually... it's more cooperating with teh sin with these houses, cause everyone knows what it's used for, a specific purpose of suicide.

i'm for it generally, cause of the benefits to society... reducing prison, costs for other stuff etc. and i generally believe that one has a right to suicide or to die if they have a disease (which could be argued here), though without the other benefits, it's not like you'd see me helping them out. and if it was suicide for the sake of that without a disease, i'd say it's a sin to help them do it, at least if there's no practical benefits to it as mentioned.

but then, i'm known to be a proportionalist. and sometimes you just have to let them kill themselves, and it's a win win for everyone, even to them (if we take it as a benefit, giving them what htey want instead of what they should have).

plus i'm not sure it is 'essentially suicide' anyway. give people who have a problem a place to live, and let them do what they will? it's a decent argument.

i dont see any moral certainty here. and for those who are prone to thinking everythign is so cut and dry, i'd like to know how this is explained in morally certain terms.

Edited February 18, 2011 by dairygirl4u2c

[Nihil Obstat]

It does appear to be some kind of formal cooperation with what they're doing.

[Tally Marx]

Giving an alcoholic a drink is like giving a depressed person a gun, or like giving an abortionist a suction vacuum. It's providing a person with the tools to sin. I don't think it's moral.

Yes, these people need a home, care, and respect. But I don't see how this is caring and respectful at all.
"You're weak? Okay, I won't help you be strong."
"You want to kill yourself? Alright, I won't stand in your way."
[i]How[/i] is that caring and respectful?
That's just letting them grovel in their misery as they try to convince themselves that it's the best they can ever have.

I suppose they have a point when they say there's always going to be casualties; there are some alcoholics who won't be cured. But, it's one thing to accept that in generalities. It's one thing to say "We can't help some people" and its another to look someone in the eye and tell them "You're hopeless." To me, that's the difference between saying that there's always going to be a woman who wants an abortion, and telling a specific woman that she should have one. Or knowing that there is always going to be someone who wants drugs, and handing a kid a needle.

Edited February 18, 2011 by Tally Marx