thessalonian Posted February 19, 2011 Author Share Posted February 19, 2011 [quote name='Nihil Obstat' timestamp='1298092393' post='2213769'] You can certainly contemplate God in having the choice, but one choice or the other is morally neutral. Cheerios versus Corn Flakes is a morally neutral choice, though the choice itself is good. [/quote] I said I wasn't limiting it to morality. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hinter dem Horizont Posted February 19, 2011 Share Posted February 19, 2011 It's a good question because the world out there is a dangerous place even among other Catholics. What does it mean to live authentically Catholic? Many Catholics probably don't even know the answer to the question. If you're a parent sending a child off to a school that isn't wholly Catholic then the child is at risk to be involved with children and teachers that are against the nature of Catholicism. However, we must also be involved with other religions in order to surely know what ours is all about. This is only for educational purposes of course. Parents have a duty to make their home's foundations completely Catholic so that the influences on the outside world are less affective. That way, the child is aware of what is inappropriate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thessalonian Posted February 19, 2011 Author Share Posted February 19, 2011 [quote name='Ad Majorem Dei Gloriam' timestamp='1298076932' post='2213726'] I think your statement is aiming towards something good; however, it seems to me to be lacking. I think St. Ignatius Loyola put it best in his writings concerning the foundation of the Society of Jesus. "[b]The First Principle and Foundation[/b] The human person is created to praise, reverence, and serve God Our Lord, and by doing so, to save his or her soul. All other things on the face of the earth are created for human beings in order to help them pursue the end for which they are created. It follows from this that one must use other created things, in so far as they help towards one's end, and free oneself from them, in so far as they are obstacles to one's end.... Thus, as far as we are concerned, we should not want health more than illness, wealth more than poverty, fame more than disgrace, a long life more than a short one, and similarly for all the rest, but we should desire and choose only what helps us more towards the end for which we are created." [/quote] Thank you for that. I agree of course. I think however that it is completely consistent with what I have said and so I still don't see the statement as lacking. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thessalonian Posted February 19, 2011 Author Share Posted February 19, 2011 [quote name='havok579257' timestamp='1298039945' post='2213571'] define authentically catholic? [/quote] The faith handed down from Christ and his apostles through the bishops to today. Probably best summed up in the Catechism of the CC. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ad Majorem Dei Gloriam Posted February 19, 2011 Share Posted February 19, 2011 (edited) [quote name='thessalonian' timestamp='1298137549' post='2213854'] Thank you for that. I agree of course. I think however that it is completely consistent with what I have said and so I still don't see the statement as lacking. [/quote] Your statement is lacking because of the way it is framed. "Everything AUTHENTICALLY Catholic brings us closer to salvation, everything not Catholic works against our salvation." The way St. Ignatius frames it is that one object can for one person bring them closer to God in that they use it correctly to fulfill their created purpose to know, love, and serve Him while at the same time that same object may be a hindrance to another person and as such to be avoided until they have built up the virtue to us it correctly. The problem is not whether the object is "authentically Catholic" but rather it is whether the individual can use the object virtuously/has built up a proper disposition towards this part of creation. St. Ignatius also notes that all of creation was inherently created for a purpose and it is this purpose which gives objects their ability to bring us closer to salvation, not the fact that somethings are created as "authentically Catholic" and other things are not (I don't even know what that would mean for things to be created that way). As such, the way St. Ignatius frames the question highlights the necessity of our response to God's gift of creation, and that if we fall it is not because God created the object imperfectly. Things are a problem for us not because objects are somehow lacking some kind of "authentic Catholicity" but rather because we use them in a way that was contrary both to our nature and the purpose for which such an object was given to us by God. The fault lies in us rather than some defect in the created object. The object is not to be despised as faulty, but rather the fault in us is what is to be remedied. Thus we are to form ourselves so that we may only value one thing over another insofar as they help us fulfill our created purpose, not because one object is "Catholic" and one is "not." Besides how could either long, short, or medium length of life be "authentically Catholic" or not? God can be seen in [b]all[/b] of creation, it is on us to respond to this natural revelation that God exists. Edited February 19, 2011 by Ad Majorem Dei Gloriam Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thessalonian Posted February 21, 2011 Author Share Posted February 21, 2011 (edited) Where have I said I was talking about objects. Your post is nonsense. I am talking theology/morality/knowledge/understanding, etc. These things are applied to objects. I find your post silly and fully understand what ignatius said. I've read his excercises. One who is misusings objects is not being authentically Catholic. I don't accept your staement that my statement is lacking. You have not proven anything. Edited February 21, 2011 by thessalonian Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AudreyGrace Posted February 24, 2011 Share Posted February 24, 2011 Going back to something brought up earlier.. I don't think anything should be "religiously neutral". Sacred Scripture (Revelation 3: 15-16) says "I know your works, I know that you are neither cold nor hot. I wish you were either cold or hot. So, because you are lukewarm, neither hot nor cold, I will spit you out of my mouth." Being a true Catholic means staying true to Sacred Scripture and Sacred Tradition, therefore, morally "neutral" acts (not harming or hurting either end, aka being lukewarm) are prettyyyyyy frowned upon. If we are truly steadfast in our faith (as good Catholics should be) then we don't have to even worry about "morally neutral" acts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nihil Obstat Posted February 24, 2011 Share Posted February 24, 2011 [quote name='AudreyGrace' timestamp='1298583212' post='2215318'] Being a true Catholic means staying true to Sacred Scripture and Sacred Tradition, therefore, morally "neutral" acts (not harming or hurting either end, aka being lukewarm) are prettyyyyyy frowned upon. If we are truly steadfast in our faith (as good Catholics should be) then we don't have to even worry about "morally neutral" acts. [/quote] Truly morally neutral acts includes things like sitting in the fifth row instead of the sixth, eating an egg for breakfast instead of cereal, etc., etc.. It simply has no moral aspect to it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MIKolbe Posted February 24, 2011 Share Posted February 24, 2011 [quote name='thessalonian' timestamp='1298255076' post='2214288'] Your post is nonsense.... [/quote] Do you find that post authentically Catholic? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AudreyGrace Posted February 24, 2011 Share Posted February 24, 2011 [quote name='Nihil Obstat' timestamp='1298583399' post='2215321'] Truly morally neutral acts includes things like sitting in the fifth row instead of the sixth, eating an egg for breakfast instead of cereal, etc., etc.. It simply has no moral aspect to it. [/quote] Ah. I misunderstood. In that case... anyone want some ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MIKolbe Posted February 24, 2011 Share Posted February 24, 2011 depends..is it authentically catholic? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tinytherese Posted February 24, 2011 Share Posted February 24, 2011 Sometimes non-Catholics like C.S. Lewis have helpful things to say that don't contradict Catholicism. There can also be at least a little bit of truth found in other religions. The Catholic Church however has the fullness of truth. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ad Majorem Dei Gloriam Posted February 24, 2011 Share Posted February 24, 2011 (edited) [quote name='MIkolbe' timestamp='1298584419' post='2215325'] depends..is it authentically catholic? [/quote] Yes, the cake is authentically Catholic. I know it personally and it is a very sweet cake. It was recently baptized and, believe it or not, is actually a strong proponent of the Papacy. Edited February 24, 2011 by Ad Majorem Dei Gloriam Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rkwright Posted February 24, 2011 Share Posted February 24, 2011 I may have something to consider. I agree with the first half of the statement, but there may be examples of the second half which are not true. Take government philosophy for example. I think its pretty clear that the Catholic belief is there is some need for a governing body that allows some type of freedom to its people and that it rules justly. But there is no Catholic teaching that says this government society needs to be a democracy, monochary, republic, parliamentary, etc. There are vast philosophies on the principle of rights between the state and its people that the Church really has not taught on. Yet I don't beleive that because the Church has not extensively made any system of government authentically Catholic, that all systems of government lead men away from God. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nihil Obstat Posted February 24, 2011 Share Posted February 24, 2011 [quote name='AudreyGrace' timestamp='1298584262' post='2215324'] Ah. I misunderstood. In that case... anyone want some ? [/quote] [quote name='MIkolbe' timestamp='1298584419' post='2215325'] depends..is it authentically catholic? [/quote] Only if it was made with blessed salt and milk from a cow that was once milked by a saint. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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