The Two Popes Before Pope John Paul Ii

[CatherineM]

One of the reasons that we move priests around to different parishes is that each priest has their strengths and weaknesses. Some are good with finances, some adult education, some marriage counseling, and some on homilies. Popes are like that too, but they don't sometimes move along as quickly. JPII was good with youth, and diplomacy, but was really bad at the paperwork. Some of that could have been in the last few years he just didn't feel up to messing with it. We have a pope now who is a true theologian and a traditionalist. He has his strengths and weaknesses as well. It kind of comes with the territory when dealing with humans. We kind of like to focus on the positives rather than the negatives when dealing with departing loved ones.

[Carolyn]

Hi, there! I hope I'm not hijacking this thread, but since we're already talking about Paul VI and Humanae Vitae, I would like to ask how it would be possible to procure any reading about the debates that preceded the final version of this encyclical. I am wondering because the other day in one of my classes, a professor mentioned that it was actually recommended to the pope by other cardinals or bishops (not sure which he said) that he allow contraception but that Paul VI was the one who vetoed it. So, if anyone has any info on this, please let me know!

[Papist]

[size="3"]With the appearance of the first oral contraceptives in 1960, dissenters in the Church argued for a reconsideration of the Church positions. In 1963 Pope John XXIII established a commission of six European non-theologians to study questions of birth control and population. After Pope John XXIII's death in 1963, Pope Paul VI added theologians to the commission and over three years expanded it to 72 members from five continents (including 16 theologians, 13 physicians and five women without medical credentials, with an executive committee of 16 bishops, including seven cardinals.)[/size]
[size="3"][/size]
[size="3"]The commission produced a majority report in 1966, proposing that artificial birth control was not intrinsically evil and that Catholic couples should be allowed to decide for themselves about the methods to be employed. According to the majority report, use of contraceptives should be regarded as an extension of the already accepted cycle method.[/size]

[size="3"]However, one commission member, American Jesuit theologian John Ford (with the assistance of American theologian Germain Grisez) drafted a minority report working paper that was signed by Ford and three other theologian priests on the commission, stating that the Church should not and could not change its long-standing teaching. Even though intended for the Pope only, the commission's report and two working papers (the minority report and the majority's rebuttal to it) were leaked to the press in 1967, raising public expectations of liberalization.[/size]

[size="3"]Pope Paul VI deliberated for I think two years and then presented to the world Humanae Vitae.[/size]

[size="3"]It is chilling to think the damage that would have been inflicted onto the world if Humanae Vitae was in tune with the commission's recommendation.[/size]

Edited February 18, 2011 by Papist

[fides quarens intellectum]

[quote name='CatherineM' timestamp='1297966100' post='2213324']
We kind of like to focus on the positives rather than the negatives when dealing with departing loved ones.
[/quote]
Amen to that.

[quote name='Papist' timestamp='1297990549' post='2213443']
[size="3"]With the appearance of the first oral contraceptives in 1960, dissenters in the Church argued for a reconsideration of the Church positions. In 1963 Pope John XXIII established a commission of six European non-theologians to study questions of birth control and population. After Pope John XXIII's death in 1963, Pope Paul VI added theologians to the commission and over three years expanded it to 72 members from five continents (including 16 theologians, 13 physicians and five women without medical credentials, with an executive committee of 16 bishops, including seven cardinals.)[/size]
[size="3"][/size]
[size="3"]The commission produced a majority report in 1966, proposing that artificial birth control was not intrinsically evil and that Catholic couples should be allowed to decide for themselves about the methods to be employed. According to the majority report, use of contraceptives should be regarded as an extension of the already accepted cycle method.[/size]

[size="3"]However, one commission member, American Jesuit theologian John Ford (with the assistance of American theologian Germain Grisez) drafted a minority report working paper that was signed by Ford and three other theologian priests on the commission, stating that the Church should not and could not change its long-standing teaching. Even though intended for the Pope only, the commission's report and two working papers (the minority report and the majority's rebuttal to it) were leaked to the press in 1967, raising public expectations of liberalization.[/size]

[size="3"]Pope Paul VI deliberated for I think two years and then presented to the world Humanae Vitae.[/size]

[size="3"]It is chilling to think the damage that would have been inflicted onto the world if Humanae Vitae was in tune with the commission's recommendation.[/size]
[/quote]

Wow - that is really interesting! I had never heard about any of that. Thanks for sharing this; yay for Pope Paul VI sticking up for the truth in the face of that report!!

[Carolyn]

[quote name='Papist' timestamp='1297990549' post='2213443']
[size="3"]With the appearance of the first oral contraceptives in 1960, dissenters in the Church argued for a reconsideration of the Church positions. In 1963 Pope John XXIII established a commission of six European non-theologians to study questions of birth control and population. After Pope John XXIII's death in 1963, Pope Paul VI added theologians to the commission and over three years expanded it to 72 members from five continents (including 16 theologians, 13 physicians and five women without medical credentials, with an executive committee of 16 bishops, including seven cardinals.)[/size]
[size="3"][/size]
[size="3"]The commission produced a majority report in 1966, proposing that artificial birth control was not intrinsically evil and that Catholic couples should be allowed to decide for themselves about the methods to be employed. According to the majority report, use of contraceptives should be regarded as an extension of the already accepted cycle method.[/size]

[size="3"]However, one commission member, American Jesuit theologian John Ford (with the assistance of American theologian Germain Grisez) drafted a minority report working paper that was signed by Ford and three other theologian priests on the commission, stating that the Church should not and could not change its long-standing teaching. Even though intended for the Pope only, the commission's report and two working papers (the minority report and the majority's rebuttal to it) were leaked to the press in 1967, raising public expectations of liberalization.[/size]

[size="3"]Pope Paul VI deliberated for I think two years and then presented to the world Humanae Vitae.[/size]

[size="3"]It is chilling to think the damage that would have been inflicted onto the world if Humanae Vitae was in tune with the commission's recommendation.[/size]
[/quote]


Thank you much!

[Ash Wednesday]

[quote name='Papist' timestamp='1297990549' post='2213443']
[size="3"]The commission produced a majority report in 1966, proposing that artificial birth control was not intrinsically evil and that Catholic couples should be allowed to decide for themselves about the methods to be employed. According to the majority report, use of contraceptives should be regarded as an extension of the already accepted cycle method.[/size]

[size="3"]However, one commission member, American Jesuit theologian John Ford (with the assistance of American theologian Germain Grisez) drafted a minority report working paper that was signed by Ford and three other theologian priests on the commission, stating that the Church should not and could not change its long-standing teaching. Even though intended for the Pope only, the commission's report and two working papers (the minority report and the majority's rebuttal to it) were leaked to the press in 1967, raising public expectations of liberalization.[/size]
[/quote]

Wow, this helps give some context as to why so many priests told marrying couples from my parents generation (people marrying in the late 60s and early 70s) that they could use contraception. I mean, now that wouldn't be unusual, but back then it was a pretty radical turnaround from just a few years before.

[Papist]

[quote name='Ash Wednesday' timestamp='1298127945' post='2213821']
Wow, this helps give some context as to why so many priests told marrying couples from my parents generation (people marrying in the late 60s and early 70s) that they could use contraception. I mean, now that wouldn't be unusual, but back then it was a pretty radical turnaround from just a few years before.
[/quote]

Yep. It is very dangerous to your soul to beleive you know better than the Pope and the Church.

[Socrates]

[quote name='southern california guy' timestamp='1297900870' post='2213108']
Oh com'on.. First you get all worked up and start acting like this is all Al Gores fault (Because he invented the internet).. And then you want us to believe that the US government has Elvis Presley locked up in an underground facility in New Mexico.

Everybody knows that Elvis Presley faked his death and sneaked off with Marilyn Monroe. What outlandish thing are you going to suggest next? That global warming isn't real?
[/quote]
I was just kidding about Elvis.

We all know he died recently defeating an ancient soul-sucking Egyptian mummy at an East Texas nursing home after secretly switching identities with an impersonator.

[media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6tiaWwwCV_k[/media]

[JenDeMaria]

[quote name='Nihil Obstat' timestamp='1297793420' post='2212616']

Here's one example, a general audience that he gave in 1969:


Our Dear Sons and Daughters:

<snip>
[/quote]

Nihil, this is really nice. Thanks for sharing. It's interesting, you could actually apply just a little of this to the new Mass translation that will affect the Ordinary form this Advent.

[Nihil Obstat]

[quote name='JenDeMaria' timestamp='1298242841' post='2214207']
Nihil, this is really nice. Thanks for sharing. It's interesting, you could actually apply just a little of this to the new Mass translation that will affect the Ordinary form this Advent.
[/quote]
I'm sorry, I don't understand what you're saying.
(The new translation is implemented in the US for Advent. The Canadian bishops have not guaranteed that for us yet.)

[Laudate_Dominum]

[url="http://www.lifesitenews.com/news/newly-released-documents-disclose-the-real-story-behind-paul-vi-birth-contr"]Grisez Interview: New documents give the real story behind Paul VI Birth Control Commission[/url]