On Reading Wikileaks...

[Catholictothecore]

Yes, but the important thing is to avoid violence. If good people do bad things to make good changes, how is it any different than bad people making bad choices to make bad changes.

[Nihil Obstat]

[quote name='Catholictothecore' timestamp='1298434981' post='2214828']
Yes, but the important thing is to avoid violence. If good people do bad things to make good changes, how is it any different than bad people making bad choices to make bad changes.
[/quote]
Very true. We may never do evil so that good may come of it. If a revolution would involve sin, then the revolution should not occur. For whatever reason that reminds me of the time that I said if the only way to stop WWII was the bombings of Hiroshima and Nagasaki, then the war should not have stopped.
However, that seems to me to be another reason not to get involved in politics. It would be getting involved in a very compromising situation in order to try to change it from the inside. I haven't thought through this particular question lately, so I'm not going to go so far as to say that being involved in politics necessarily involves sin, but it does appear to me to be a very dangerous position to put oneself in.

[Catholictothecore]

Well, the simple fact is that we live in dangerous positions all the time. The Bible says that a just man falls seven times a day, seven being a symbol for completion, so even a just man is, in a way, rotten to the core. So, the question isn't how are we to avoid sin, but what good can we do despite the sin that will occur in our lives?

[Nihil Obstat]

For my part, I think I'm going to avoid the state governments as much as possible. Be a bit more self-sufficient, work things out on my own instead of relying on them.

[Catholictothecore]

But you can't avoid governments. They have all sorts of records, from the moment you are born. We are not called to evade them, no matter corrupt they are, just as we are not called to avoid society. The simple truth is we are society. The only way to get change is by being the change. Even if that means joining ranks. Even if that means running for office and placing your faith in God on the line so as to be able to make good decisions. Eventually, we all have our necks on the line anyways. The only difference between someone who dies for their faith and someone who lives it is that the person who lives it dies more slowly.

[Ice_nine]

[quote name='Catholictothecore' timestamp='1298514740' post='2215114']
But you can't avoid governments. They have all sorts of records, from the moment you are born. We are not called to evade them, no matter corrupt they are, just as we are not called to avoid society. The simple truth is we are society. The only way to get change is by being the change. Even if that means joining ranks. Even if that means running for office and placing your faith in God on the line so as to be able to make good decisions. Eventually, we all have our necks on the line anyways. The only difference between someone who dies for their faith and someone who lives it is that the person who lives it dies more slowly.
[/quote]

I see your point, I does, but avoiding a government does not necessarily entail avoiding society. I'm more of a grassroots, get your hands dirty and make a small change where you're at and God-willing it will spread, but that's only in theory. In all honesty I've been too beaver dam lazy to do anything substantial. I will wager that the more effective changes are made from the ground up, rather than made in the upper echelons of power and if I could get off my lazy American arse I could probably practice what I preach and let you know how that pans out.

I admire the tenacity behind your post but the government we exist in is too powerful of a juggernaut for even 1000 well-intentioned people to change. Especially when it's seeped into nearly every aspect of our lives. It's kinda like a cancer in its final stage that is hidden away in all the nooks and crannies of tissue and . . . meticulously extracting all of it seems more arduous than it's worth. It's not cynicism or taking a defeatist attitude, I just can't see politics and government being an effective vehicle for real change.

[Nihil Obstat]

[quote name='Catholictothecore' timestamp='1298514740' post='2215114']
But you can't avoid governments. They have all sorts of records, from the moment you are born. We are not called to evade them, no matter corrupt they are, just as we are not called to avoid society. The simple truth is we are society. The only way to get change is by being the change. Even if that means joining ranks. Even if that means running for office and placing your faith in God on the line so as to be able to make good decisions. Eventually, we all have our necks on the line anyways. The only difference between someone who dies for their faith and someone who lives it is that the person who lives it dies more slowly.
[/quote]
I can't avoid them, but I can and will try.
I disagree that we're not called to avoid corrupt governments. I think it is our responsibility to avoid such a disgusting haven of sin wherever humanly possible.