cmotherofpirl Posted February 11, 2011 Share Posted February 11, 2011 Then why did't you simply have a poll and say you really were not interested in comments? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
franciscanheart Posted February 11, 2011 Author Share Posted February 11, 2011 your post disappeared. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AudreyGrace Posted February 11, 2011 Share Posted February 11, 2011 My father is an alcoholic. It broke up my family, exposed me to things I shouldn't have at a very young age, and lead to a lot of hurt feelings. However, looking back, I see it has opened the door for God to work in my life, to heal my hurt. I was referred to al-anon, but I refused to go. It simply wasn't for me. I preferred prayer. AA can be great for many, depending on the person's attitude. I do think alcoholism is a disease, rooted in addiction. I think that all addictions are diseases, and should therefore be treated with love. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IcePrincessKRS Posted February 11, 2011 Share Posted February 11, 2011 [quote name='AudreyGrace' timestamp='1297401031' post='2211272'] My father is an alcoholic. It broke up my family, exposed me to things I shouldn't have at a very young age, and lead to a lot of hurt feelings. However, looking back, I see it has opened the door for God to work in my life, to heal my hurt. I was referred to al-anon, but I refused to go. It simply wasn't for me. I preferred prayer. AA can be great for many, depending on the person's attitude. I do think alcoholism is a disease, rooted in addiction. I think that all addictions are diseases, and should therefore be treated with love. [/quote] (I wish we still had the :yes: smiley... I put in the clapping one, but that just seemed kind of wrong given the first couple sentences... ) My father is an alcoholic as well. I think there are a lot of things that I could point to to show how much of the hurt that was spread around is his fault. To this day he still hasn't admitted that he has a problem. I am quite certain that he doesn't believe he has one. It would be very easy for me to point my finger at him and say "this mess is all because of you." I think it's hard to feel empathy for people in his situation. I don't think he has ever been able to turn down a beer. Not just a choice to drink it anyway, but an inability to just say no. That's why they call it addiction, right? I don't think anyone walks into addiction thinking "Hey, I think today is a good day to become an alcoholic or drug addict." On the flip side, I have also seen a very good friend of mine claw their way out of alcohol addiction. The changes in them have been wonderful to see; there has been so much personal and spiritual growth. In a way it reminds me of a college friend of mine who overcame anorexia/bulimia. Seeing the strength and courage it took to make that first step was wonderful. To watch them continue on the road to wholeness is even better. It's given me a chance to have empathy for the plight of recovering addicts. It's much harder to feel that for the person who refuses to get help. I think prayer is huge here, to guide us in how we deal with those people, and for them that they might seek the help they need to overcome their addiction. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lil Red Posted February 11, 2011 Share Posted February 11, 2011 i haven't seen any derogatory comments around phatmass i have limited experience with alcoholics (in-laws), so i can't speak much to AA or Al-Anon. those people i know, most of them have not sought help. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
strgzr00 Posted February 12, 2011 Share Posted February 12, 2011 [quote name='Lilllabettt' timestamp='1297383231' post='2211145'] I am not debating. That is how alcoholism has impacted my life: as a choice my mother made ... My mom also happens to be nuts, and you can't blame a crazy chick for being nuts. Because it is what it is, she can't help it. The chemicals are wrong in her brain. What my mom chose was, when she could not deal, to medicate with alcohol. She chose this for 13 years. Now, because she is scared of going to jail, she is choosing not to do that anymore. The consequence of possibly going to jail is (so far) enough to make her change her behavior. The consequences of us kids suffering years of neglect and humiliation ... wasn't enough. Wow, you know? That's a reality. For healing to happen, it has to be addressed, not denied, or swept under the rug with a "it wasn't my fault, I had a disease." Frankly, it annoys me when my illness is put in the same category as alcoholism. I did not have my intestines amputated because of a behavior problem. [/quote] I think that there is a strong genetic component to alcoholism. Among Navajos, for example, and maybe other American Indian tribes, there is a lack of a certain liver enzyme that breaks down alcohol, probably because they had never lived with it until the Europeans came. There are also strong societal influences, in societies where the culture has been oppressed for centuries, again the American Indians and the Irish come to mind. Few educational and vocational opportunities, especially for the men, and, in Ireland, lousy weather (one drinks to 'keep warm'-actually alcohol helps you lose heat). This is why AA teaches that you are 'always' an alcoholic. I had alcoholics--men--in my family, but never was tempted. I have one drink and quit. I simply don't want anymore. No problem. Is it my superior morality? No. It's my genes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
4588686 Posted February 12, 2011 Share Posted February 12, 2011 [quote name='franciscanheart' timestamp='1297399603' post='2211259'] I had really hoped for a more educated and respectful thread. I hope all of you who have suffered from alcoholism in any way find healing. [/quote] Well, when you make a post on a public forum about something controversial (alcoholism classification as a disease AND accusing unnamed individual of unspecified instances of inappropriate insensitivity) and do so in a sanctimonious tone and then whine about people not sticking to your very narrow yet somehow also somewhat vague guidelines you are kind of asking for problems. I'm not talking about board rules. I'm talking about human nature. You are asking people for a favor. Two favors, in fact. You are asking them to take time out of their day to provide you with polling information and to be more respectful to an organization that you like. When you come to people asking for favors it's best to be humble and flexible rather than preachy and rigid. In my opinion as someone who can also be preachy and rigid. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lilllabettt Posted February 12, 2011 Share Posted February 12, 2011 [quote name='strgzr00' timestamp='1297533918' post='2211709'] I think that there is a strong genetic component to alcoholism. Among Navajos, for example, and maybe other American Indian tribes, there is a lack of a certain liver enzyme that breaks down alcohol, probably because they had never lived with it until the Europeans came. There are also strong societal influences, in societies where the culture has been oppressed for centuries, again the American Indians and the Irish come to mind. Few educational and vocational opportunities, especially for the men, and, in Ireland, lousy weather (one drinks to 'keep warm'-actually alcohol helps you lose heat). This is why AA teaches that you are 'always' an alcoholic. I had alcoholics--men--in my family, but never was tempted. I have one drink and quit. I simply don't want anymore. No problem. Is it my superior morality? No. It's my genes. [/quote] Alcoholism runs in my family. It is in my "genes." I have chosen not to drink. I have a say in whether or not I become an alcoholic. MUC also runs in my family. I had no choice about getting it. I had no say. And I cannot just wake up one day and say "thats it, I've hit bottom, I have to give this up." See the difference? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lilllabettt Posted February 12, 2011 Share Posted February 12, 2011 P.S. the "alcoholism is a disease" idea does not really belong in a thread about AA. I used to give tours of the house where Dr. Bill founded AA. I know for a fact that he rejected the idea that its a disease. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
franciscanheart Posted February 12, 2011 Author Share Posted February 12, 2011 [quote name='Lilllabettt' timestamp='1297549296' post='2211784'] P.S. the "alcoholism is a disease" idea does not really belong in a thread about AA. I used to give tours of the house where Dr. Bill founded AA. I know for a fact that he rejected the idea that its a disease. [/quote] Really? Because the Big Book calls it a disease. And it wasn't Dr. Bill. It was Dr. Bob. Again, I'll leave this to the years of research. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deus te Amat Posted February 12, 2011 Share Posted February 12, 2011 (edited) According to Wikipedia, it's Bill W and Dr. Bob. And AA didn't have an official stance on "disease" until 1973; it's not called a disease in "the book". Quote from Bill W in 1960 "We AAs have never called alcoholism a disease because, technically speaking, it is not a disease entity. For example, there is no such thing as heart disease. Instead there are many separate heart ailments or combinations of them. It is something like that with alcoholism. Therefore, we did not wish to get in wrong with the medical profession by pronouncing alcoholism a disease entity. Hence, we have always called it an illness or a malady — a far safer term for us to use."[sup] [/sup] [url="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alcoholics_Anonymous#The_Big_Book.2C_the_Twelve_Steps_and_the_Twelve_Traditions"]AA Wiki[/url] Edited to add link. Edited February 12, 2011 by Deus_te_Amat Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
franciscanheart Posted February 12, 2011 Author Share Posted February 12, 2011 If we're siting wiki and the like: "More informally than not, AA's membership has helped popularize the disease concept of alcoholism, though AA officially has had no part in the development of such postulates which had appeared as early as the late eighteenth century.[49] Though AA initially avoided the term "disease", in 1973 conference-approved literature categorically stated that "we had the disease of alcoholism."[50] Regardless of official positions, from AA's inception most members have believed alcoholism to be a disease.[10]" Bill may have avoided the word itself, but the doctors who helped AA eventually did not. I can't remember if Dr. Bob called it a disease. I'd have to double-check. DtA - remind me to when I see you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
franciscanheart Posted February 12, 2011 Author Share Posted February 12, 2011 But wait a second... I'm not going to argue about this. Whether or not it's a disease is of no matter to me, really. Not to the point of arguing. I just wanted to ask for respect for something that helps people. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deus te Amat Posted February 12, 2011 Share Posted February 12, 2011 Franny, Bring it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
franciscanheart Posted February 12, 2011 Author Share Posted February 12, 2011 [quote name='Deus_te_Amat' timestamp='1297553551' post='2211817'] Franny, Bring it. [/quote] [url="http://www.bhrm.org/papers/AAand%20DiseaseConcept.pdf"]Read this[/url] and then I'll Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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