thessalonian Posted February 7, 2011 Share Posted February 7, 2011 This has been bugging me. Maybe it shouldn't go in debate because I don't know if there are any here and so I doubt I will get the answers to what I am ponding. Maybe I'll have to go on an atheist board and post it. I am not a big proponent of pascals wager as it is really not a reason to believe in God but... Atheists have to HOPE there is no God. Considering how the proverbial crud will hit the fan if there isn't wouldn't you think they would say "I believe there is not but I hope that there is". Except that runs them down the road of if there is, then what is required of me from him? What an empty hope to hope there is no God. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
4588686 Posted February 7, 2011 Share Posted February 7, 2011 [quote name='thessalonian' timestamp='1297107004' post='2209736'] This has been bugging me. Maybe it shouldn't go in debate because I don't know if there are any here and so I doubt I will get the answers to what I am ponding. Maybe I'll have to go on an atheist board and post it. I am not a big proponent of pascals wager as it is really not a reason to believe in God but... Atheists have to HOPE there is no God. Considering how the proverbial crud will hit the fan if there isn't wouldn't you think they would say "I believe there is not but I hope that there is". Except that runs them down the road of if there is, then what is required of me from him? What an empty hope to hope there is no God. [/quote] I guess I'm an atheist although I don't like to associate with atheists and the atheist movement. A Muslim could say the same about you. How sad that you have to hope that the wonderful promises offered to believers in the Qur'an are lies. How said that you have to go through life hoping that you will never have to taste the terrible chastisement Allah reserves for those who reject his path. I don't go through life hoping there is no God. I really don't think about it and when I do it's in a fairly abstract way (as in now). I have no reason to believe that the strict versions of any religions are true. The few points they have going for them are outweighed by the points against them. I'm just not worried about it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thessalonian Posted February 7, 2011 Author Share Posted February 7, 2011 Interesting. So you don't hope for what does not exist? You simply don't think about what does not exist? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MIKolbe Posted February 7, 2011 Share Posted February 7, 2011 FWIW, i've met my fair share of atheists. Some are 'evangelical' in nature; MUST show you how right they are, and how foolish you are. These types I can see 'hoping' there is no God. Others, and in my case, the vast majority of others; just don't think of it. Much like Hasan has stated. To answer your question, "You simply don't think about what does not exist?", they would answer..."Do you think about a unicorns (or random non-existent things) impact on your life?". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
4588686 Posted February 7, 2011 Share Posted February 7, 2011 [quote name='thessalonian' timestamp='1297110962' post='2209767'] Interesting. So you don't hope for what does not exist? You simply don't think about what does not exist? [/quote] I wouldn't say I don't think about it. I do think about religious questions and religions. But I think about them in an abstract way. So, when I read MacIntyre (the fameous former Marxist turned Catholic) or Shabbir Akhtar (Sunni religious philosopher) I am interested in their views on modernity and their challenges to it (MacIntyre launched a brilliant and devastating attack on almost all modern moral systems in After Virtue) but I don't have any acute sense that the religious world views they present as an alternative are correct or that I hope they are incorrect. I wouldn't say that I know that the beliefs or the major religions are incorrect in total. I don't. I think I have good reasons to believe that, at the very least, the most traditional and orthodox versions of these religions are incorrect (For example, maybe Islam has some insight into what's beyond the physical world and maybe the Qur'an was inspired by God, I don't know, but it is almost certainly not the 100% vouchsafed literal message from God, it shows the Sun revolving around the world, along with other problems). I just downed a cup of black coffee so that may be kind of scatterbrained. If something was unclear I apologize. Just let me know. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Laudate_Dominum Posted February 7, 2011 Share Posted February 7, 2011 If life is fundamentally haphazard, amoral and cruel, as it appears to many, it may be horrifying to imagine there is some transcendent being willing all of this, and thus preferable to hope that death is an inconsequential "lights out," rather than, say, an [i]eternity[/i] at the mercy of whatever sadistic mind willed this world. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Laudate_Dominum Posted February 7, 2011 Share Posted February 7, 2011 Plenty of figures in the history of philosophy has highly pessimistic views of reality. Sad to say.No cheezburger for them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thessalonian Posted February 8, 2011 Author Share Posted February 8, 2011 [quote name='MIkolbe' timestamp='1297111768' post='2209772'] FWIW, i've met my fair share of atheists. Some are 'evangelical' in nature; MUST show you how right they are, and how foolish you are. These types I can see 'hoping' there is no God. Others, and in my case, the vast majority of others; just don't think of it. Much like Hasan has stated. To answer your question, "You simply don't think about what does not exist?", they would answer..."Do you think about a unicorns (or random non-existent things) impact on your life?". [/quote] We are told the laws of God are implanted on all men's hearts. One of these laws is the innate desire to love and serve the one God. Now they may be in denial but I don't believe that any of them truly deep down absolutely don't think about God. If they think of him , yet deny him, they must hope he doesn't exist. I've heard the unicorn and fairies and zues arguments. They are silly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thessalonian Posted February 8, 2011 Author Share Posted February 8, 2011 Hassan, "I wouldn't say that I know that the beliefs or the major religions are incorrect in total. " A view that I hold as interestingly consistent with Catholicism and scripture. We are told that God's laws are implanted on all men's hearts in Romans 2:14-16. These laws will manifest themselves in the people's religious beliefs. Thus some truth can be found in all religions. Paul says test all things, hold on to what is good. So seem to not be an atheist. You seem to have a hope that there is something beyond. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Selah Posted February 8, 2011 Share Posted February 8, 2011 [quote name='Laudate_Dominum' timestamp='1297112993' post='2209783'] Plenty of figures in the history of philosophy has highly pessimistic views of reality. Sad to say. No cheezburger for them. [/quote] They can at leest haz saladz? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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