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And With Your Spirit


ExCorde

  

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The new English translation of the Roman Missal for [i]"and also with you"[/i] will be [i]"and with your spirit"[/i] (exactly like the Latin [i]"et cum spiritu tuo"[/i]), which seems to be the most striking change.

In the poll, please answer as to how comfortable with this change you find yourself.

Here's a good article on the significance of the expression (it's fine to vote without reading it):[b]

[list][*][url="http://www.catholicherald.co.uk/features/2011/01/27/why-%E2%80%98and-with-your-spirit%E2%80%99-is-right/"][b]Why 'and with your spirit' is right[/b][/url][/b][/list]

Edited by ExCorde
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It's particularly relevant for me to look into this when in my own language, Portuguese, we have an even odder translation in place for several decades, that is remarkably different.

In Portugal, the reply to "The Lord be with you" is [i]"He is in our midst."[/i] The bishops, liturgists and linguists somehow got it from the same Latin rite, from the [i]"et cum spiritu tuo."
[/i]
So when I hear of these changes I wonder how long this expression that so many of us love (it may even be the prayer that best reflects the faith of some, even more than the Creed) will be kept... and fear the reaction of our people.

Edited by ExCorde
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fides quarens intellectum

[quote name='ExCorde' timestamp='1297099459' post='2209690']
It's particularly relevant for me to look into this when in my own language, Portuguese, we have an even odder translation in place for several decades, that is remarkably different.

In Portugal, the reply to "The Lord be with you" is [i]"He is in our midst."[/i] The bishops, liturgists and linguists somehow got it from the same Latin rite, from the [i]"et cum spiritu tuo."
[/i]\
[/quote]

that is fascinating to me - i guess i seem to have the impression that it is only the American English that is really messed up in translation.

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Glad that inspired you for the sake of the Church in America, at least... lol

Oh well, since Fátima we have the confidence to take any blow! This too shall pass.

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[quote name='ExCorde' timestamp='1297098570' post='2209683']
The new English translation of the Roman Missal for [i]"and also with you"[/i] will be [i]"and with your spirit"[/i] (exactly like the Latin [i]"et cum spiritu tuo"[/i]), which seems to be the most striking change.

In the poll, please answer as to how comfortable with this change you find yourself.

Here's a good article on the significance of the expression (it's fine to vote without reading it):[b]

[list][*][url="http://www.catholicherald.co.uk/features/2011/01/27/why-%E2%80%98and-with-your-spirit%E2%80%99-is-right/"][b]Why 'and with your spirit' is right[/b][/url][/b][/list]
[/quote]
i've already started saying it that way. i like it better.

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I've switched to saying the responses in Latin, because the CCCB is planning on wasting our time so that they can approve the new translation themselves.

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[quote name='Nihil Obstat' timestamp='1297282679' post='2210638']
I've switched to saying the responses in Latin, because the CCCB is planning on wasting our time so that they can approve the new translation themselves.
[/quote]

How is that going to happen exactly? You mean they want to change it again? Is this just a conspiracy theory or did you see something?

Edited by ExCorde
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[quote name='ExCorde' timestamp='1297283031' post='2210641']
How is that?
[/quote]
If I understand what I read correctly, the CCCB won't allow parishes to use the new translation until the council has approved it themselves. It's probably not going to be the Advent 2011 start that you guys yet. In fact they haven't even set a date, as far as I know.
Here's what they say:
It is our intention that the date of implementation of the new Roman Missal will be the same as in the United States, but experience has taught us to urge caution in announcing the availability of any new print product on a specific date, especially one the size of the Missal. As you may be aware, we are in the process of receiving final approval from the Congregation for Divine Worship and the Discipline of the Sacraments for our Proper Calendar for Canada and for the Canadian adaptations for the General Instruction of the Roman Missal. Once we have the final text, we will turn it around as quickly as possible. The publications team here at the CCCB have done some remarkable work these past few months: we are in fact the first country outside of the Vatican to have the new Apostolic Exhortation Verbum Domini in print in either English or French. So if it is humanly possible, we will be ready for an Advent 2011 implementation.

(That's a new thing, btw. I couldn't find that a month ago.)
As far as I can tell, the gist of it is that the CCCB wants to have a hand in it, and they're not going to release it in Canada until they've put their own little stamp on it.
I'm somewhat encouraged though- this is the first I've heard about the intention to follow the Advent 2011 timeline. Like I said, a month ago, that info wasn't available and they were implying a very late implementation.


Anyway, I like learning the Latin. I'm having fun.

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This is the article I had read before:


The General Secretariat and the English Sector National Liturgy Office of the Canadian Conference of Catholic Bishops (CCCB) have recently received queries regarding the English-language text of the third revised edition of the Roman Missal for use in Canada.

These questions follow an earlier announcement by the United States Conference of Catholic Bishops (USCCB) that it has received recognitio from the Holy See for the English-language text for use in the USA. In addition, the USCCB has released the text of the Missal as approved for the American dioceses, while also announcing that this new translation comes into force in the USA on the First Sunday of Advent, November 27, 2011. This implementation date was chosen to allow US publishers time to print and publish the text, while also enabling American dioceses and parishes to prepare Catholics for the changes in the new edition of the Missal.

The CCCB wishes to remind Catholics in our country that the United States is one of eleven English-speaking Episcopal Conferences in the world. Each Conference of Bishops is involved in preparing its own text of the Missal. Once the proposed text has been duly approved by the Bishops of that Conference in a canonical vote, it is sent to the Congregation for Divine Worship and the Discipline of the Sacraments, along with any adaptations requested by the Bishops of that Conference. Each Conference must then wait until it receives recognitio by the Congregation before proceeding with the publication of the Missal and selecting a date for its implementation within its respective country.

The CCCB has now received recognitio for the standard texts of the Roman Missal that will be used by all the other English-speaking countries, but has not yet received recognitio for any [b]adaptations for Canada[/b], nor for the proposed Proper Liturgical Calendar for the Dioceses of Canada. The recognitio received by the United States, however, did include the decisions of the Congregation on the requested adaptations and the liturgical calendar for the USA. The Bishops of Canada [b]cannot select a date for the implementation of the Missal in Canada[/b] until all the approved texts, including the adaptations, have been received and the necessary amount of time ascertained for the Canadian Missal to be printed and published. In addition, it is not CCCB practice to release liturgical translations in advance before the official liturgical books have been published.

As part of the preparation for the implementation of the Missal, the Bishops of Canada will also be issuing catechetical resources to assist Canadian Catholics in preparing for the new translation. These resources will be prepared by the CCCB English Sector Commission for Liturgy and the Sacraments, with the assistance of the Sector’s National Liturgy Office. However, these materials can only be finalized once the approved text of the Missal, as well as the adaptations and the liturgical calendar, have been received for use in Canada.

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Oh right CCCB not USCCB, because I recall correctly those do have a website and plans all aimed at a November 2011 start.

Canada's "adaptations" smells of you know what!

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[quote name='Lil Red' timestamp='1297283617' post='2210648']
i'm beginning to really resent bishops' conferences <_<
[/quote]
Agreed. Cam was telling me about how the modern phenomenon of bishop's conferences results from a poor understanding of collegiality.

[quote name='ExCorde' timestamp='1297283841' post='2210650']
Oh right CCCB not USCCB, because I recall correctly those do have a website and plans all aimed at a November 2011 start.

Canada's "adaptations" smells of you know what!
[/quote]
Yea, the USCCB website at least is very clear about what's going on. The CCCB is very opaque.

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