The Hip Homily By The Hip Priest

[Ephrem Augustine]

[url="http://www.laloyolan.com/opinion/hip-homilies-and-sermon-on-the-shore/"]The Hip Homily by the Hip Priest[/url]
I posted the link above on my blog, but asked the question of being a hip priest is overrated. I don't think there was a moment of my life where people thought their priest could be more cool or more hip.
I recently read a book called [url="http://www.hipsterchristianity.com/"]Hipster Christianity[/url] by [url="http://stillsearching.wordpress.com/"]Brett McCracken[/url]. I would recommend it. If at least it challenges some of our popular conceptions of whether or not cool and christianity are compatible. Without being a sweeping dismissal of it, neither being a naive acceptance of it.

Somewhere in my early life, it was clear to me that if the priest preaching at mass could not say something relevant and relatable it left the Gospel message too distant.
For the most part, if we have seen a priest who is stuck in the 1970s definition of cool, that is not what i am talking about. I am talking about the kind of priest who actually does know whats up. What are the merits of this, and what are the weaknesses of this?

Edited February 6, 2011 by Ephrem Augustine

[Socrates]

[quote name='Ephrem Augustine' timestamp='1297035386' post='2209465']
[url="http://www.laloyolan.com/opinion/hip-homilies-and-sermon-on-the-shore/"]The Hip Homily by the Hip Priest[/url]
I posted the link above on my blog, but asked the question of being a hip priest is overrated. I don't think there was a moment of my life where people thought their priest could be more cool or more hip.
I recently read a book called [url="http://www.hipsterchristianity.com/"]Hipster Christianity[/url] by [url="http://stillsearching.wordpress.com/"]Brett McCracken[/url]. I would recommend it. If at least it challenges some of our popular conceptions of whether or not cool and christianity are compatible. Without being a sweeping dismissal of it, neither being a naive acceptance of it.

Somewhere in my early life, it was clear to me that if the priest preaching at mass could not say something relevant and relatable it left the Gospel message too distant.
For the most part, if we have seen a priest who is stuck in the 1970s definition of cool, that is not what i am talking about. I am talking about the kind of priest who actually does know whats up. What are the merits of this, and what are the weaknesses of this?
[/quote]
Hipness, by its very nature, is focused on the transient and ephemeral. What's hip today is uncool tomorrow.
Religion should be focused on the Eternal.

People merely need to turn on the TV or surf the web to get out what's cool and hip - no need for a church to provide that.
I, for one, (though I've never been known as a hipster) go to Church for the timeless, eternal, and transcendent.

While it may not be "cool" or "hip," sermons that focus on the eternal truths of the Faith, and on the issues of life and death, gaining eternal salvation, and avoiding eternal damnation, and dealing with the struggle against sin and evil in our lives and in the world, are things that are relevant and relatable to everybody, whether they want to think about them or not.

Also keep in mind that the hip young priest today will 30 years from now be that pathetic old guy stuck in the 2010s definition of cool.

I guess it all means by what you mean by "hip."
Nothing wrong with aparish priest having a knowledge of real issues in the contemporary culture, but I think there's something wrong with a priest who is fascinated by Lindsey Lohan and Jersey Shore.

[MIKolbe]

I would say a Priest's job is not to be hip, it is to be holy. However, I am unsure if those 2 are mutually exclusive (other than when it pertains to proper liturgical celebration).

I can understand when Fr. would want to 'be all things to all people', but I would hope he would not 'lose himself' in the process. A thin line to walk, not doubt.

As my learned associate above has indicated, I hope not to run into any 'groovy' or 'far-out' Priests. Proof positive that hipness and coolness are fading watercolor brush strokes on the canvas of life.

[4588686]

A Priest should be aware of pop culture. Unless the Priest says 'screw marriage, go for the hookup' he's never going to be truly contemporary.


Christianity is not fully comparable with modernity (post-modernity, whatever the latest label is). If Priests became truly hip they'd just be men teaching an incoherent varient of modernity who for some reason decided to remain unmarried.

Personally I think they'd do better just being honest to the ideology they actually have dedicated their lives too, rather than ditching it for some anemic, 'hip' version of a respectable ideology.

[Ephrem Augustine]

almost nobody posted a positive response to a priest being hip.

hip, cool, all those things are terms given to the trailblazers. There is nothing thoroughly original or groundbreaking among amoral people in the secular world. What appears to be groundbreaking to one generation may be termed hip or cool, but be more relevant then the moment.

all I can say is, that it can often times be difficult to receive an edifying, or even a thoughtfully critical comment from a priest who has zero experience of all the day to day concerns of my life.

Truth is always valuable. Truth is always relevant. However, this has more to do with a priest having the aptitude to communicate timeless truths in particular time and place that communicates those truths with urgency and relevance to that particular time and place. The message communicated is somewhat incidental to the Truth as such, but really determine how those who hear the message can actually have access to that Truth. Euphemisms and Symbols are not timeless, and even the language evolves or is altered in such a way that certain words carry no relevant connection to what they would have communicated previously.

I can say such, that a priest, like any adult, who is trying to hard to be something they are not will be identifiable for the fraud they are. However, if whatever happens to be hip or cool is relatively easily integrated into the priest's life and perception, that would be another story.

The other question to ponder is, what if your parish priest actually defined cool?

[tinytherese]

Please see post #3 on this thread for the links I posted that can shed some light on this subject. The first two are from my blog.

http://www.phatmass.com/phorum/index.php?showtopic=110909

[Socrates]

[quote name='Ephrem Augustine' timestamp='1297141404' post='2209983']
almost nobody posted a positive response to a priest being hip.

hip, cool, all those things are terms given to the trailblazers. There is nothing thoroughly original or groundbreaking among amoral people in the secular world. What appears to be groundbreaking to one generation may be termed hip or cool, but be more relevant then the moment.[/quote]
I don't think hipsters are really trailblazers or groundbreaking in any real sense.
It's just whatever the latest variation happens to be on the same old jaded apathy, contempt, amoralism, drugs, and asinine lefty politics.

[quote]all I can say is, that it can often times be difficult to receive an edifying, or even a thoughtfully critical comment from a priest who has zero experience of all the day to day concerns of my life.

Truth is always valuable. Truth is always relevant. However, this has more to do with a priest having the aptitude to communicate timeless truths in particular time and place that communicates those truths with urgency and relevance to that particular time and place. The message communicated is somewhat incidental to the Truth as such, but really determine how those who hear the message can actually have access to that Truth. Euphemisms and Symbols are not timeless, and even the language evolves or is altered in such a way that certain words carry no relevant connection to what they would have communicated previously.

I can say such, that a priest, like any adult, who is trying to hard to be something they are not will be identifiable for the fraud they are. However, if whatever happens to be hip or cool is relatively easily integrated into the priest's life and perception, that would be another story.[/quote]
If a priest is not up on all the latest pop-culture fads, trashy tv shows, etc., does that mean he has zero experience of all the day to day concerns of our life?

I think since most parish priests live in the world, and have frequent contact with their parishioners, they can be quite knowledgeable about the day to day concerns of our lives - at least what is really important in them - without necessarily being up on all the latest pop-culture trivia or being intimately familiar with the plot lines of Jersey Shore.
Nor does he need to sport the latest "hip" haircut or such.

In fact, I think giving a trite sermon built around a trashy MTV show smacks more of desperately trying to look "cool with the kids" - "Look at me; I'm not one of those dorky old fuddy-duddy old priests; I watch MTV!" - than it does with genuinely relaying the Gospel in an understandable way.

It's just the contemporary version of those "groovy," "far-out" 70s-era priests you laugh at now.

And such a sermon would be off-putting for those of us who don't watch Jersey Shore, and have no interest in doing so. Sermons should elevate the mind to higher things - not stay mired in the trivialities of the pop-culture sewer.

[quote]The other question to ponder is, what if your parish priest actually defined cool?[/quote]
Personally, I think my parish priest is way cool, though no one would consider him a hipster.

Quite frankly, I'd rather my priest define holiness, than "cool."
Personally, I'd be concerned about the priorities of a priest who was excessively on top of all the latest pop-culture fads.

If you want hipness, go to a concert of your favorite indie band. If you want holiness, go to a mass.

[Ephrem Augustine]

I think I am engaging in this conversation so much, because I didn't expect it to be dismissed as quickly as it has, without a positive comment anywhere. I didn't know 'hip' and 'cool' could be so controversial here.
[quote name='Socrates' timestamp='1297191519' post='2210179']
I don't think hipsters are really trailblazers or groundbreaking in any real sense.
It's just whatever the latest variation happens to be on the same old jaded apathy, contempt, amoralism, drugs, and asinine lefty politics.
[/quote]


In the big scheme of things, when you see the perspective of several centuries, there may be nothing trailblazing. What I was trying to say is that in the limited scope of the lifetime of a millennial, it appears to be trailblazing. To the person who has grown up in a world, being pressured to believe that the only thing of inherent value is the new, the trendy, the novel, maybe a respect of tradition, or a fascination with the antiquity or vintage being called cool might not all be that bad.

It may not in essence be trailblazing... If 'hip' or 'cool' are such inherently revolting, disgusting or dreadfully moronic and valueless things in and of themselves then we can just end the conversation at the risk of contaminating eternal truth with such vulgar things.


[quote name='Socrates' timestamp='1297191519' post='2210179']
If a priest is not up on all the latest pop-culture fads, trashy tv shows, etc., does that mean he has zero experience of all the day to day concerns of our life?

I think since most parish priests live in the world, and have frequent contact with their parishioners, they can be quite knowledgeable about the day to day concerns of our lives - at least what is really important in them - without necessarily being up on all the latest pop-culture trivia or being intimately familiar with the plot lines of Jersey Shore.
Nor does he need to sport the latest "hip" haircut or such.

In fact, I think giving a trite sermon built around a trashy MTV show smacks more of desperately trying to look "cool with the kids" - "Look at me; I'm not one of those dorky old fuddy-duddy old priests; I watch MTV!" - than it does with genuinely relaying the Gospel in an understandable way.

It's just the contemporary version of those "groovy," "far-out" 70s-era priests you laugh at now.

And such a sermon would be off-putting for those of us who don't watch Jersey Shore, and have no interest in doing so. Sermons should elevate the mind to higher things - not stay mired in the trivialities of the pop-culture sewer.
[/quote]

MTV is trash. One can dismiss it as a prude. One can dismiss it as a morally principalled person of integrity. One can also find a cutting edge way of condemning it. One can even find an ironic way of challenging it (Why does MTV have to shove all their amorality and senseless sexuality down our throats, its not fair!). But I think you definitely have a point in terms of knowing their audience.

I guess I should have said somewhere toward the beginning that seminaries around the world should have classes taught by editors from cosmopolitan magazine and contemporary art critics. Because in essence, Mr Socrates, that is exactly what I was trying to get at all along. I was trying to say that the only thing that really matters before all the Theology and Tradition and Liturgy was essentially being cool. Just as long as every week, the whole curriculum could be reevaluated and reworked to accommodate the trends.

Of course I phrase myself in such a way knowing that you, Socrates are quite whimsical[img]http://www.phatmass.com/phorum/public/style_emoticons/default/like.gif[/img]

[quote name='Socrates' timestamp='1297191519' post='2210179']
Personally, I think my parish priest is way cool, though no one would consider him a hipster.

Quite frankly, I'd rather my priest define holiness, than "cool."
Personally, I'd be concerned about the priorities of a priest who was excessively on top of all the latest pop-culture fads.

If you want hipness, go to a concert of your favorite indie band. If you want holiness, go to a mass.
[/quote]

This sounds like something Thomas Merton said in Seven Story Mountain.

An 8th grade boy walked up to me in my habit and asked me "How come your outfit is soooo coooool!?!"

To the person who thinks that the only thing that matters is whatever is accepted as cool, or as hip, I might come out with your own thoughtful approach. However, I am not sure that they are so diametrically opposed as has been previously discussed here.

[Socrates]

[quote name='Ephrem Augustine' timestamp='1297230085' post='2210498']
I think I am engaging in this conversation so much, because I didn't expect it to be dismissed as quickly as it has, without a positive comment anywhere. I didn't know 'hip' and 'cool' could be so controversial here.[/quote]
I'd say it has more to do with "hip" and "cool" being so vague and poorly defined. You never really clearly stated what you were talking about here - the only specific example given was in the blog concerning the "hip" priest giving a "hip" sermon surrounding an episode of Jersey Shore, something that really didn't do much to impress me.



[quote]In the big scheme of things, when you see the perspective of several centuries, there may be nothing trailblazing.[/quote]
Actually it really only takes the perspective of several decades.

[quote] What I was trying to say is that in the limited scope of the lifetime of a millennial, it appears to be trailblazing. To the person who has grown up in a world, being pressured to believe that the only thing of inherent value is the new, the trendy, the novel, maybe a respect of tradition, or a fascination with the antiquity or vintage being called cool might not all be that bad.

It may not in essence be trailblazing... If 'hip' or 'cool' are such inherently revolting, disgusting or dreadfully moronic and valueless things in and of themselves then we can just end the conversation at the risk of contaminating eternal truth with such vulgar things.
[/quote]
Again, depends on what you're talking about. There are plenty of disgusting, moronic, and valueless things currently considered hip, though all those things may not be necessary to hipness or coolness per se. Much of the current culture in general is contrary to true Christian values/virtue, but "coolness" is a fairly subjective concept.

I was mostly taking a dig at hipsters in general, who aren't exactly the people I have the most respect for as a group.

[media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kAO4EVMlpwM[/media]


[quote]MTV is trash. One can dismiss it as a prude. One can dismiss it as a morally principalled person of integrity. One can also find a cutting edge way of condemning it. One can even find an ironic way of challenging it (Why does MTV have to shove all their amorality and senseless sexuality down our throats, its not fair!). But I think you definitely have a point in terms of knowing their audience.[/quote]
Perhaps the "hip" priest should have done that rather than giving the lame sermon recounted in that blog. The young college student blogger didn't himself seem particularly impressed with it.
I've got nothing against using examples from movies or TV if they genuinely help illustrate some relevant spiritual or moral point. That "Jersey Shore" sermon was really stretching it, though.

[quote]I guess I should have said somewhere toward the beginning that seminaries around the world should have classes taught by editors from cosmopolitan magazine and contemporary art critics. Because in essence, Mr Socrates, that is exactly what I was trying to get at all along. I was trying to say that the only thing that really matters before all the Theology and Tradition and Liturgy was essentially being cool. Just as long as every week, the whole curriculum could be reevaluated and reworked to accommodate the trends.

Of course I phrase myself in such a way knowing that you, Socrates are quite whimsical[img]http://www.phatmass.com/phorum/public/style_emoticons/default/like.gif[/img]
[/quote]
You're a funny man.

[quote]This sounds like something Thomas Merton said in Seven Story Mountain.

An 8th grade boy walked up to me in my habit and asked me "How come your outfit is soooo coooool!?!"

To the person who thinks that the only thing that matters is whatever is accepted as cool, or as hip, I might come out with your own thoughtful approach. However, I am not sure that they are so diametrically opposed as has been previously discussed here.[/quote]
Don't get me wrong. If a priest (or anyone else, for that matter) has a genuine talent for relating to young people and bringing them to holiness, they should use it. I just don't think "hipness" or "coolness" is something that priests should actively strive for. After all, if you're[i] trying[/i] to be cool, you're not.