add Posted February 13, 2011 Share Posted February 13, 2011 (edited) [quote name='tinytherese' timestamp='1297554778' post='2211825'] The phrase "cafeteria catholic" is a term for a Catholic who picks and choose what teachings of the Church they accept and reject. The phrase comes from the analogy of a person who picks and chooses what they will and will not eat in a cafeteria. [/quote] i don't like jello, it is a term for gelatin, [size="5"]I[/size][size="3"]t wiggles and it jiggles[/size] Edited February 13, 2011 by apparently Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nihil Obstat Posted February 13, 2011 Share Posted February 13, 2011 [quote name='apparently' timestamp='1297555322' post='2211828'] i don't like jello, it is a term for gelatin, [size="5"]I[/size][size="3"]t wiggles and it jiggles[/size] [/quote] Good analogy then, because you also don't like the concept of invalid matrimony (in clear and obvious opposition to the Church, who recognizes it as an issue of grave importance). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southern california guy Posted February 13, 2011 Author Share Posted February 13, 2011 (edited) [quote name='Nihil Obstat' timestamp='1297556557' post='2211830'] Good analogy then, because you also don't like the concept of invalid matrimony (in clear and obvious opposition to the Church, who recognizes it as an issue of grave importance). [/quote] Yes but using psychological reasons as an excuse for an annulment is a relatively new thing. Granted the Catholic church should not have been remarrying a man who had beheaded his wives -- but perhaps they shouldn't be remarrying Catholics that argue that they didn't really mean the vows when they took them. It has led to an increase in Catholic divorces and the children are paying the price as much as anybody. Perhaps the Catholic church shouldn't grant an annulment until the couples children are grown. Then the Catholic church wouldn't be taking a part in messing up the kids lives. Arguably people might wait to get remarried if it means getting a Catholic marriage (As ridiculous as that sounds). Is the Catholic church really infallible? Edited February 13, 2011 by southern california guy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
add Posted February 13, 2011 Share Posted February 13, 2011 I don't know much, but I do know my marriage and rising of children was the happiness years of my insignificant existence on this earth. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lil Red Posted February 13, 2011 Share Posted February 13, 2011 [quote name='apparently' timestamp='1297559167' post='2211834'] I don't know much, but I do know my marriage and rising of children was the happiness years of my insignificant existence on this earth. [/quote] that's great! not everyone is so blessed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nihil Obstat Posted February 13, 2011 Share Posted February 13, 2011 [quote name='southern california guy' timestamp='1297557359' post='2211831'] Yes but using psychological reasons as an excuse for an annulment is a relatively new thing. Granted the Catholic church should not have been remarrying a man who had beheaded his wives -- but perhaps they shouldn't be remarrying Catholics that argue that they didn't really mean the vows when they took them. It has led to an increase in Catholic divorces and the children are paying the price as much as anybody. Perhaps the Catholic church shouldn't grant an annulment until the couples children are grown. Then the Catholic church wouldn't be taking a part in messing up the kids lives. Arguably people might wait to get remarried if it means getting a Catholic marriage (As ridiculous as that sounds). Is the Catholic church really infallible? [/quote] Yes, the Church is infallible. I am more than happy to agree (and in fact I've argued so in the past) that something is going wrong in terms of marriage within the Church. Either too many immature couples are getting through marriage prep, or too many annulments are being granted. I'm not sure which, but I lean towards the former. Point is that things aren't perfect right now and there is a lot of work to be done. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lil Red Posted February 13, 2011 Share Posted February 13, 2011 [quote name='Nihil Obstat' timestamp='1297561132' post='2211837'] Yes, the Church is infallible. I am more than happy to agree (and in fact I've argued so in the past) that something is going wrong in terms of marriage within the Church. Either too many immature couples are getting through marriage prep, or too many annulments are being granted. I'm not sure which, but I lean towards the former. Point is that things aren't perfect right now and there is a lot of work to be done. [/quote] there's another article (that i don't have the energy to find right now) in which the Pope stated that marriage is not a right and that priests need to do a better job of marriage prep. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nihil Obstat Posted February 13, 2011 Share Posted February 13, 2011 [quote name='Lil Red' timestamp='1297568383' post='2211860'] there's another article (that i don't have the energy to find right now) in which the Pope stated that marriage is not a right and that priests need to do a better job of marriage prep. [/quote] Yep, I remember that. Was that posted here, or did I read it elsewhere?Found it. It was elsewhere. VATICAN CITY – Pope Benedict XVI told priests Saturday to do a better job counseling would-be spouses to ensure their marriages last and said no one has an absolute right to a wedding. Benedict made the comments in his annual speech to the Roman Rota, the Vatican tribunal that decides marriage annulments. An annulment is the process by which the church effectively declares that a marriage never took place. Benedict acknowledged that the problems that would allow for a marriage to be annulled cannot always be identified beforehand. But he said better pre-marriage counseling, which the Catholic Church requires of the faithful, could help avoid a "vicious circle" of invalid marriages. He said the right to a church wedding requires that the bride and groom intend to celebrate and live the marriage truthfully and authentically. "No one can make a claim to the right to a nuptial ceremony," he said. Benedict has used his annual speech to the Rota to impress on its members the indissolubility of marriage and that they should avoid the temptation of granting annulments on a whim. Last year, he urged the tribunal to work harder to encourage couples to stay together and not confuse "pastoral charity" with the need to uphold church law. On Saturday, Benedict said priests had an important pastoral job to discern whether would-be spouses are prepared and able to enter into a valid marriage. "The church and society at large place too much importance on the good of marriage and the family founded on it to not make a profound commitment to it pastorally," Benedict said. The Vatican's concern about marriage annulments is largely directed at the United States, which in 2006 had more annulment cases launched than the rest of the world combined. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tinytherese Posted February 13, 2011 Share Posted February 13, 2011 I honestly see the amount of annulments given out not so much because certain tribunals give them to people who shouldn't get them, but because so few people in the Church understand what marriage is. The combination of the world that we live in, so much bad instruction in the faith, and even bad marriage preparation programs, no wonder so many people enter into invalid marriages. As Quoted From The Friendly Defenders: "When the pope with the bishops, or the pope alone offers definitive, official teaching on faith and morals, he cannot make an error. 'When the Spirit of truth comes, he will guide you into all the truth' (Jn 16:13). In this verse, Jesus promised that the Church would be guided to all truth. The Holy Spirit cannot deceive. [i]Other References: Col. 1:9-10, Luke 10:16, 1 Tim. 3:15[/i]" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
add Posted February 13, 2011 Share Posted February 13, 2011 (edited) [quote name='tinytherese' timestamp='1297569714' post='2211865'] I honestly see the amount of annulments given out not so much because certain tribunals give them to people who shouldn't get them, but because so few people in the Church understand what marriage is. The combination of the world that we live in, so much bad instruction in the faith, and even bad marriage preparation programs, no wonder so many people enter into invalid marriages. As Quoted From The Friendly Defenders: "When the pope with the bishops, or the pope alone offers definitive, official teaching on faith and morals, he cannot make an error. 'When the Spirit of truth comes, he will guide you into all the truth' (Jn 16:13). In this verse, Jesus promised that the Church would be guided to all truth. The Holy Spirit cannot deceive. [i]Other References: Col. 1:9-10, Luke 10:16, 1 Tim. 3:15[/i]" [/quote] Or, perhaps it is just due to a simple lack of faith on the part of the sinner. Edited February 13, 2011 by apparently Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
add Posted February 13, 2011 Share Posted February 13, 2011 [quote name='southern california guy' timestamp='1297554310' post='2211824'] You guys.. this thread is supposed to be about what is best for the children -- regardless of whether the parents get an annulment. I suppose that since this is a Catholic board than "remarrying" would imply remarrying within the Catholic church -- after an annulment. But the question is:[b] "For the sake of the children is it best to wait until they're grown to date and remarry?"[/b] [/quote] yes, remarry, It's more stable for children and gives them an example to follow Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
organwerke Posted February 13, 2011 Share Posted February 13, 2011 [quote name='apparently' timestamp='1297552877' post='2211808'] i know, isn't it sad though? [/quote] Well, it depends... For example I have a dear friend who got engaged with a man that is civilly divorced and is asking and waiting for an annullment. More or less this is their story. He got married quite young and then his wife left him and asked for divorce. he was not catholic (not practicing) when he got married, but he got married in the catholic chrurch to accomplish his wife's desire (that probably simply wanted a beautiful feast in the Church). Of course both of them had many faults in this childish behavious, they didn't realize the meaning of what they where doing etc. their marriage lasted a very short time and they did not have children. After that, he met my friend, who is catholic. They have a very good relationship and he is becoming much more practicing and he is now understanding that he wants to have a good family with her. I am not saying that it was good that there was an invalid marriage before, but I do not see so sad that this person, that through his mistakes has understood the real meaning of marriage, can have a true catholic family in the future. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
add Posted February 13, 2011 Share Posted February 13, 2011 (edited) [quote name='organwerke' timestamp='1297601002' post='2211928'] Well, it depends... For example I have a dear friend who got engaged with a man that is civilly divorced and is asking and waiting for an annullment. More or less this is their story. He got married quite young and then his wife left him and asked for divorce. he was not catholic (not practicing) when he got married, but he got married in the catholic chrurch to accomplish his wife's desire (that probably simply wanted a beautiful feast in the Church). Of course both of them had many faults in this childish behavious, they didn't realize the meaning of what they where doing etc. their marriage lasted a very short time and they did not have children. After that, he met my friend, who is catholic. They have a very good relationship and he is becoming much more practicing and he is now understanding that he wants to have a good family with her. I am not saying that it was good that there was an invalid marriage before, but I do not see so sad that this person, that through his mistakes has understood the real meaning of marriage, can have a true catholic family in the future. [/quote] however, I've heard a lot of sad stories too that don't end so well! Edited February 13, 2011 by apparently Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
organwerke Posted February 13, 2011 Share Posted February 13, 2011 [quote name='apparently' timestamp='1297601263' post='2211929'] I've heard a lot of sad stories too! [/quote] In fact I've said "it depends"... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
add Posted February 13, 2011 Share Posted February 13, 2011 (edited) life long marriages are on the decline, but weddings (the business of) are bigger than ever Edited February 13, 2011 by apparently Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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