Proposition: Lying To Planned Parenthood Is A Sin

[kamiller42]

[quote name='Nihil Obstat' timestamp='1298364713' post='2214574']
I think you're going to have to pull that quote up for me. I didn't say it, I don't know anyone who did, and I would disagree with them as well.
We are not bound to reveal the truth to those who have no right to know, however this is not the same as actively lying to someone for any reason.

However, Live Action's work involves lies, lies are sinful, and we can never condone sin.
[/quote]
Live Action's work involves role playing in order to test for a response. PP failed in that response.

Lies are used to conceal the truth. Live Action's investigative work is to reveal a truth.

If it helps to make LA's work more palatable, think of LA's absence to reveal to PP that they are acting as exercising "mental reservation."

Edited February 22, 2011 by kamiller42

[MIKolbe]

[quote name='kamiller42' timestamp='1298391136' post='2214611']
Live Action's work involves role playing in order to test for a response. PP failed in that response.

Lies are used to conceal the truth. Live Action's investigative work is to reveal a truth.

If it helps to make LA's work more palatable, think of LA's absence to reveal to PP that they are acting as exercising "mental reservation."
[/quote]
role playing?

role playing:lying
as
enhanced interrogation:torture

simply defining a term to suit the argument does not make it any less than a lie.

I will role play a bank robber tomorrow. See how far that gets me....

[Socrates]

I'll just say that I'm with Peter Kreeft on this, who is no idiot, and knows his stuff pretty well. Sternhauser and others are free to disagree with him, but I think accusing him of heresy goes too far. The most they can say is that they disagree with him.

Even Stern & Co agree that it is not sinful to deliberately kill a man by putting a bullet in his brain in order to save the lives of innocent persons, if that is the only available means of doing so.
However, they claim it is morally unacceptable to lie about one's age in order to save the lives of innocent persons.
The logical inference from this is that somehow lying about one's age is objectively a greater evil than killing another human being.

[i]That[/i] is a position I find morally untenable. If taking the life of a murderous aggressor can be acceptable to save the lives of the innocent, then so must verbally deceiving said aggressor.

As Kreeft pointed out, Live Action's actions here are in essence no different than police sting operations or espionage, which the Church has nowhere that I'm aware condemned as always sinful (even though I'm sure anarchists would denounce them as such, but I'm no anarchist). As these are well-known, widely practiced activities, if they were so immoral I'm sure the Church would have specifically denounced them as such to clear up any confusion.

I have no problem with either if used legitimately, and it's going to take something more authoritative than the opinion of Sternhauser or Ron Conte to convince me otherwise.

Edited February 22, 2011 by Socrates