Detachment

[Chamomile]

[quote name='vee8' timestamp='1296932305' post='2209051']
Maybe the word reparation might help which I found defined as the making of amends for wrong or injury done After we go to Confession we must make amends to God for our offenses committed right? By doing extra penances or reparations we may offer those to God for the sins others commit and are never sorry for. Also, as it says in Matthew, I think, some demons can only be expelled by prayer and fasting. If my understanding is correct we can then not only pray and fast for ourselves to be freed from some particular torment or struggle but also on behalf of others so through that God may move to work in their life.
[/quote]



Atonement is also another way to think of it. Like in the Chaplet of Divine Mercy.

I was reminded of the Angel's prayer at Fatima after I read your post, vee...



[quote]
My God,
I believe, I adore, I hope, and I love You.
I ask forgiveness for those
who do not believe, nor adore, nor hope, nor love You.
Most Holy Trinity-
Father, Son, and Holy Spirit-
I adore You profoundly,
and I offer You the most Precious
Body, Blood, Soul, and Divinity
of Jesus Christ,
present in all the tabernacles of the world
in reparation
for the outrages, sacrileges, and indifferences
by which He is offended;
and by the infinite merits of His Most Sacred Heart,
and through the Immaculate Heart of Mary,
I bet the conversion of poor sinners.
Amen.
[/quote]


I saw Fr. Andrew Apostoli speak about Eucharistic Adoration, and he said this prayer is often said three times before the Blessed Sacrament, so there's a specific act of atonement most people can do!

Our Lady of Fatima told the shepherd children to do penance, and I sometimes find that word harsh. Atonement or reparation make more sense to me - I'm not sure if there's an actual theological or practical difference in those words, though.

I think the best penance is whatever increases humility in a person's soul.

[JenDeMaria]

Speaking of Fatima... reading about the little shepherd children that wanted to make sacrifices so badly they gave their lunches to strangers and went without water all day really made me want to engage in extra penance. Little Jacinta Marto was only five years old. If a five year old can love sinners that much, shouldn't I be able to give up treats on a Wednesday or offer up my shoulder ache instead of taking an aspirin?

Of course, when I looked up "penance" online I found some great advice: first, do all the things you should do, but don't. File your taxes. Plan a budget and stick to it. Eliminate impulse purchases. Spend less time adoring your tv and/or computer. Read the Catechism of the Catholic Church. It reminded me of the part in This House of Brede where a senior nun complains of the novices that they all want to engage in extreme penance for love of God... fasting on nothing but bread and water, sleeping on boards, taking extra discipline, etc -- but no would do the tedious things that would actually be useful, such as keeping the string spool tidy and not wasting the dish soap. Sleeping on boards can seem romantic, in a way, and inflame one's pride, but being cautious with the dish soap requires a true martyrdom of the self, in the most humble sense.

I love the word "penance", personally. My Protestant Bible used to read "Repent, for the Kindgom of Heaven is at Hand." Now my Catholic Bible says "Do penance, for the Kingdom of Heaven is at hand." Penance is an action word that says "True contrition requires more than sighs and tears". Kind David repented. And then he went and wrote the Miserere.

[JenDeMaria]

[quote name='Chamomile' timestamp='1296948469' post='2209119']
Atonement is also another way to think of it. Like in the Chaplet of Divine Mercy.
...snip...

Our Lady of Fatima told the shepherd children to do penance, and I sometimes find that word harsh. Atonement or reparation make more sense to me - I'm not sure if there's an actual theological or practical difference in those words, though.

I think the best penance is whatever increases humility in a person's soul.
[/quote]

Actually, just for the sake of clarification, atonement and reparation are satisfactions made for sins. Only Jesus can atone and/or make reparation for sins.

Think of it this way. You break a million dollar vase. Atonement is paying for the vase. Reparation is replacing it. Penance is saying "I'm sorry, I don't have a million dollars. But I am truly sorry and, if you like, I can bring you a cup of coffee in the morning and wash your car in the afternoon."

We do offer to make reparation for crimes committed against the Immaculate Heart of Mary in the familiar Fatima sacrifice prayer, but that's a whole different kettle of fish.

[Chamomile]

[quote name='JenDeMaria' timestamp='1296952624' post='2209155']
Actually, just for the sake of clarification, atonement and reparation are satisfactions made for sins. Only Jesus can atone and/or make reparation for sins.

Think of it this way. You break a million dollar vase. Atonement is paying for the vase. Reparation is replacing it. Penance is saying "I'm sorry, I don't have a million dollars. But I am truly sorry and, if you like, I can bring you a cup of coffee in the morning and wash your car in the afternoon."

We do offer to make reparation for crimes committed against the Immaculate Heart of Mary in the familiar Fatima sacrifice prayer, but that's a whole different kettle of fish.
[/quote]

Ah! Thank you for clarifying!

[TeresaBenedicta]

[quote name='vee8' timestamp='1296932305' post='2209051']
Maybe the word reparation might help which I found defined as the making of amends for wrong or injury done After we go to Confession we must make amends to God for our offenses committed right? By doing extra penances or reparations we may offer those to God for the sins others commit and are never sorry for. Also, as it says in Matthew, I think, some demons can only be expelled by prayer and fasting. If my understanding is correct we can then not only pray and fast for ourselves to be freed from some particular torment or struggle but also on behalf of others so through that God may move to work in their life.
[/quote]

Yeah, I definitely get the concept.

I suppose I do some of that, when I have particular intentions for people or what have you.

I guess I've just never felt the need over burden myself with penances-- the way you hear St. Teresa and others talk about it. Then again, I've always been in close consultation with my spiritual director with these things, too.

Overall-- I think penances [i]can[/i] be a good way of doing your part to detach from your own will... but I'd say they are [i]more[/i] effective when in consultation with your spiritual director. As some have said here, and as our spiritual mentors teach, penances lose their effect to a certain degree when they are merely another outlet of your own will.

But often God gives us an abundant opportunity for growth in detachment just by our circumstances in life.

[franciscanheart]

[quote name='Tally Marx' timestamp='1296947528' post='2209107']
How so, if I may inquire?
I mean, how do you budget your time? In favor of spending less time with loved ones, or more (like my family wants to do; spend as much time with me as they can before they must give me up!)?
[/quote]
I'll give this a shot (replying) but know I am very tired from today and may not be very eloquent!

I have "budgeted" my time in favor of spending less time with those around me. I spend only the amount of time with others as is prudent for my spiritual life and my basic needs. While time with others is certainly a good thing, I have to be constantly aware of my motives for staying or going. I do not fret about it, the answer usually comes easily if I'm open to it.

I have a sizable amount of time set aside each day for morning prayer and meditation (considering I also have a full-time job) and keep a few nights a week "free" of other commitments. I can choose to spend my "free" time with my family or by myself. Even my time "serving" is limited to what I feel is best for both me and the recipients of my service.

I like to think of my interaction with "the world" in terms of college work. I try to maintain as much as possible the ratio of 2:1. I spend twice as much time in quiet and prayer (or by myself) as I do with others. Sometimes that looks like Daily Mass or adoration, and sometimes that looks like a run at the lake. My spiritual and mental/physical health comes before all else.

Our families and friends certainly want time with us and that is not necessarily a bad thing. However, we must be willing to understand that, though not necessarily a bad selfishness, it is selfish and we must first look at what is prudent.

Have I mentioned yet that this is simply what I feel God is asking of me in my life, what I have discerned for myself and not necessarily right for everyone else? No? Well, I'm saying it now. So take what I'm saying with a grain of salt. And if you disagree or it causes questions, talk to your SD.

So I guess that's a long answer to a simple question. I tend to roll like that. And I'm sorry if it made little sense. I am really tired.


Simply because our families and friends love us and have good intentions does not mean we have to fulfill their every request for our time - or even the majority of their requests. What time is prudent and loving and adding to the glory of God is what we should spend with them, I think.


Am I making any sense? I'll try again in a day or two.

[Tally Marx]

[quote name='franciscanheart' timestamp='1296967934' post='2209234']
I'll give this a shot (replying) but know I am very tired from today and may not be very eloquent!
[/quote]

Thank you very much, and no that made perfect sense. Thank you.

[Sarah147]

I can see what you are saying about more quiet time. I'm spending more quiet time than I did growing up, and I like having that time. I can tell I will really need it, if and when, in an order. It's great having that busy time and being with all those Sisters (ssew), and yet still being able to have your own, quiet time through it!

[franciscanheart]

[quote name='Tally Marx' timestamp='1297043143' post='2209520']
Thank you very much, and no that made perfect sense. Thank you.
[/quote]
I'm glad. I've forgotten: where are you entering?

[Tally Marx]

[quote name='franciscanheart' timestamp='1297055735' post='2209587']
I'm glad. I've forgotten: where are you entering?
[/quote]

I am not certain yet.
That's what I am discerning.

[franciscanheart]

[quote name='Tally Marx' timestamp='1297120483' post='2209856']
I am not certain yet.
That's what I am discerning.


[/quote]
coughCFRcough

[Tally Marx]

[quote name='franciscanheart' timestamp='1297122013' post='2209865']
coughCFRcough
[/quote]


They are amesome and I am considering them!

[juchu]

I was remembering this thread... Because right now I am putting all my things into boxes, giving things away to friends and family, deciding what to take with me... Sorting through 6 years of university stuff...

Compared to other people, I do not own a lot. But still a lot to organize.
And it is crazy. It hurts. I know deep in my heart that I am doing this for a reason... But still, I have cried a lot this week, because this organizing and sorting and throwing things out is making the radicalitity of my decision real for me. One normally does all this sorting out when ones grandparents or parents die... And now its oneself, in ones youth, that is dying in a way.... Dying to live life fully... Sorry if I am getting dramatic, but this is really how it feels to me right now.

It is good that it is really sinking in. But all the material attachments I have, have reminded me of all the spiritual attachments in sense of relationships and history I have and with which I will have to deal with during postulancy and novitiate and onwards...

It is really only Gods Grace I can rely on for transforming me...

Edited January 25, 2012 by juchu

[Guest hermanita]

[quote name='juchu' timestamp='1327531037' post='2375377']

It is good that it is really sinking in. But all the material attachments I have, have reminded me of all the spiritual attachments in sense of relationships and history I have and with which I will have to deal with during postulancy and novitiate and onwards...

[color=#800000]It is really only Gods Grace I can rely on for transforming me...[/color]
[/quote]

Amen! Duc et altum. Me too.

[Strictlyinkblot]

Agreed. Its not just the items themselves and whatever value they possess. Its memories that are attached to them. The thought of just giving everything away is frightening and it hurts. But then, if it didn't hurt it wouldn't be a real sacrifice.