My Friend/ex-Boyfriend Has Asked Me To Marry Him

[krissylou]

[quote name='HopefulBride' timestamp='1296509638' post='2207172']
Mith, you have a good point there, I guess my concern is that I don't want to come across as being uncharitable but at the same time I want to be firm and to the point.
[/quote]

My strong guess is that it will not be possible to be "too direct" in this matter. You may want to be more subtle to cushion the blow. "He'll understand what I'm saying."

He will not figure it out. He will not understand. (or maybe he will, really, but he won't act like it.) He is proposing when you are not only discerning religious life BUT HAVE ACTUALLY APPLIED AND ARE PLANNING ON ENTERING THIS SUMMER. This is not someone for whom subtlety will be appropriate.

Be blindingly, hit-him-on-the-head-with-a-sledgehammer (not literally!) clear and direct and obvious. I'm not saying that you should be pointlessly cruel -- but be at least three times as direct and clear as you think you should be.

[Tally Marx]

[quote name='krissylou' timestamp='1296517959' post='2207221']
My strong guess is that it will not be possible to be "too direct" in this matter. You may want to be more subtle to cushion the blow. "He'll understand what I'm saying."

He will not figure it out. He will not understand. (or maybe he will, really, but he won't act like it.) He is proposing when you are not only discerning religious life BUT HAVE ACTUALLY APPLIED AND ARE PLANNING ON ENTERING THIS SUMMER. This is not someone for whom subtlety will be appropriate.

Be blindingly, hit-him-on-the-head-with-a-sledgehammer (not literally!) clear and direct and obvious. I'm not saying that you should be pointlessly cruel -- but be at least three times as direct and clear as you think you should be.
[/quote]


^ I agree. If he hasn't gotten the point yet, then subtlety won't work now.
And ending the friendship wouln't be uncharitable, I think. I think it would be more charitable to end it. Your friendship sounds like it's holding him back from pursuing his own vocation. He'll come to realize this, too eventually.
I will be praying for you and for him.

Pax et bonum!

[CatherineM]

It doesn't matter what your station in life, your age, or your vocation, there will be people in your life that you need to step away from. My first thought was about people in recovery from a drug or alcohol problem who have to divest themselves of old drinking buddies. I had to stop seeing a friend when I went on a diet because she kept trying to sabotage me. If someone is trying to pull you away from your vocation, they aren't working for your best interests.

[Jesus_lol]

To save everyone some time, the appropriate response when someone you are not dating proposes to you? it is "No."


If you happen to be dating someone else/ a nun at the time, then feel free to add a little heat to that "No."

worry about his feelings later. or dont.

[Anastasia13]

When you marry, you work to please the Lord and your spouse. If you marry outside of the faith in our Lord and Savior, those two things will not be the same.

In the long run, you would have different goals (God vs. Allah), partly different culture, different outlooks on life where one does not view things from quite a Christian perspective. This creates a greater challenge in a relationship, where your most important matters in life are not the same

Wouldn't it be nice to know that if you do get married, that your husband is not rejecting (knowingly or unknowing) but trying serve the Lord in the Church?

[LaPetiteSoeur]

Because he proposed marriage, and the whole religion difference, I'd say break it off.

Pray for him, that he realizes your intentions are pure and God's will.

[HopefulBride]

Thanks again guys and Krissy I really do think I must be more direct than normal (I have said no tons and tons of times) a small part of the reason we broke up 6 years ago was because of my no. I felt that with our religious differences, it wouldn't be fair to either of us. I prayed about it after my no and I still felt the same way. Strange thing is during my relationship with him I always prayed and asked God to show me if I should stay with him (because I was wary of the religious difference) Now I am realizing that the Lord did show me. I guess I should have prayed that the Lord would show him as well....

I have not spoken to him since I told him no and to tell you the truth, I don't know how I'm going to. I have been ignoring him these past couple of days and I know that eventually I must face him and get him to understand...

Please pray for me and for him.

[TeresaBenedicta]

[quote name='HopefulBride' timestamp='1296567896' post='2207379']
Thanks again guys and Krissy I really do think I must be more direct than normal (I have said no tons and tons of times) a small part of the reason we broke up 6 years ago was because of my no. I felt that with our religious differences, it wouldn't be fair to either of us. I prayed about it after my no and I still felt the same way. Strange thing is during my relationship with him I always prayed and asked God to show me if I should stay with him (because I was wary of the religious difference) Now I am realizing that the Lord did show me. I guess I should have prayed that the Lord would show him as well....

I have not spoken to him since I told him no and to tell you the truth, I don't know how I'm going to. I have been ignoring him these past couple of days and I know that eventually I must face him and get him to understand...

Please pray for me and for him.
[/quote]

Or don't talk to him again. Frankly, I think you'd be well within the boundaries of charity [i]not[/i] speaking to him again. You've used words before. It's not that he hasn't heard you or even understood you. It's that he doesn't [i]respect[/i] you enough to listen. You can say no again and again, more forcefully each time... but honestly, I think at this point the old adage is truer than ever: Actions speak louder than words. Don't contact him again. Don't try and explain again. He has the words; he'll remember them. But now there's action to seal it up.

[ksterling]

I no longer date since I am seriously discerning. Sometimes I go out with a mixed group - pizza, movies - but I don't date. I see no need to lead any man into thinking we are going to have a relationship - let him go out with a woman who is interested in marriage. The Muslim part is a whole new complication which could be very problematic. You need to make a decision. If you really feel called to religious life, I think you should act in accordance with that decision. Not for nothing do the Nashville Dominicans prohibit their sisters in formation from writing to men not in their immediate family. If I was engaged, I wouldn't still be dating. I feel the same way about religious life. I made a decision and I will act in accordance with that decision. Just my 2 cents.

Kat

[MithLuin]

The reason I said what I did was because I have had an ex propose to me. (Not with a ring or anything, but still.)

I dated a guy for ~ 4 1/2 years, starting when we were both in high school, and continuing through college (at different colleges). Obviously, after dating someone for that long, the possibility of marriage had been seriously considered by both of us. The relationship was pretty good for the first two years, but deteriorated after that point. He had on several occasions broken things off and then gotten back together. Finally, I had had enough and didn't take him back when he did that again.

He was devastated, kept asking me why, etc. I continued talking to him because...well, I was his closest friend, and I didn't think it would be fair to just abandon him. That Christmas, he proposed to me, because (as he put it), he'd planned to then anyway. Obviously, I had to turn him down. That spring, he had a string of bad things happen to him - a coworker died right in front of him, he lost his job, etc. I thought that continuing to talk to him was the only charitable thing to do.....

Turns out, it took him over a year to get over me. He didn't really believe things were over until he met my new boyfriend. And why did he think he still had a chance with me? Maybe because...I let him think that way. As much as I thought I was being crystal clear in saying 'no, never going to happen,' the fact that I continued to make time for him, to talk to him, and even (on occasion) agreed to see him [never on a 'date'] gave him false hope and didn't let him heal. In the end, I had to drive the point home [i]very[/i] cruelly.

So, here's the scenario. He tells me he's going to be driving by my college on his way home, and can he stop by and visit? At this point, it's a little over a year since we broke up...and he knows I've been dating a guy for a few weeks/a month. I tell him, sure, he can stop by in the afternoon, but I have plans in the evening. My boyfriend had work to do that afternoon, but of course I had promised to spend Sat. evening with him. So, ex stops by, and he and I and my roommate chit-chat throughout the afternoon. He's parked himself on the couch and complains of being tired from his long drive, and maybe he's not going to make it home...basically, he threatens to fall asleep on my couch and refuses to leave (albeit very passive-aggressively). I know it's a mind game, but it puts me in a bit of a dilemma. I can leave him there with my roommate (awkward for her!) and go out with my bf. Or I can cancel my plans with my bf and entertain the ex for the evening (caving into his manipulation). Or...I could do what I did. Which was to call my bf and invite him over, explaining that I was a bit stuck because my guest hadn't left yet, but of course I still wanted to see him (he knew my ex was coming by). So, he showed up, and (surprise, surprise), my ex decided he was alright to drive home after all. My roommate yelled at me afterwards for being so heartless to the poor guy, but my parents told me I had done the right thing. My dad said I needed to show him that he wasn't the most important person in my life - that I had chosen the new bf over him.

About 6 mo. later, he found himself a new girlfriend, something he would never have done if he'd still been hoping to get back together with me.


He is now happily married, has a beautiful daughter, and a son on the way. I still see him and talk to him, because I am good friends with his wife. (I was maid of honor at his wedding and am godmother to his daughter - because of his wife, not because of him.) I don't have much one-on-one interaction with him anymore, though, and that's fine with both of us. It's also been over 10 years since all of this happened.

So, I know I didn't handle the situation well. Looking back, I can see how much I hurt him by dragging things on. I *thought* I was being nice or charitable or a good friend...but I wasn't. That's why I'm letting you know that [i]saying[/i] 'I'm sorry, but no, I will not marry you' is not enough. Your actions have to make it clear, too. Crystal clear. And that means...severing the friendship. [b]TB[/b] is right. You can 'let him down easy' if you feel you have to, by explaining that you think he'll make a very good husband to some other girl, and that you will of course continue to pray for him....but then you have to end it. It's probably better if you just don't talk to him again at all. He will not hear the 'no' - he'll just hear 'she cares about me! she's talking to me!'

I'm sorry. I know this isn't easy.

Edited February 1, 2011 by MithLuin

[HopefulBride]

[quote name='ksterling' timestamp='1296571463' post='2207397']
I no longer date since I am seriously discerning. Sometimes I go out with a mixed group - pizza, movies - but I don't date. I see no need to lead any man into thinking we are going to have a relationship - let him go out with a woman who is interested in marriage. The Muslim part is a whole new complication which could be very problematic. You need to make a decision. If you really feel called to religious life, I think you should act in accordance with that decision. Not for nothing do the Nashville Dominicans prohibit their sisters in formation from writing to men not in their immediate family. If I was engaged, I wouldn't still be dating. I feel the same way about religious life. I made a decision and I will act in accordance with that decision. Just my 2 cents.

Kat
[/quote]

We aren't dating and haven't been dating for over six years. It's not up to me to "let" or not let him go out with anyone. All I can do is not act in a way that leads him on (which I was sure I was doing) Not spending time with him one-on-one and not talking to him as much. Since our break-up he has dated other women (a couple of them serious) and I have dated other men. I've sought advice from him and vice versa. It's just recently he started with this nonsense that has me torn between a friendship that we had before we started dating and the need to make him respect and honor my decision.

[HopefulBride]

[quote name='MithLuin' timestamp='1296574524' post='2207405']
The reason I said what I did was because I have had an ex propose to me. (Not with a ring or anything, but still.)

I dated a guy for ~ 4 1/2 years, starting when we were both in high school, and continuing through college (at different colleges). Obviously, after dating someone for that long, the possibility of marriage had been seriously considered by both of us. The relationship was pretty good for the first two years, but deteriorated after that point. He had on several occasions broken things off and then gotten back together. Finally, I had had enough and didn't take him back when he did that again.

He was devastated, kept asking me why, etc. I continued talking to him because...well, I was his closest friend, and I didn't think it would be fair to just abandon him. That Christmas, he proposed to me, because (as he put it), he'd planned to then anyway. Obviously, I had to turn him down. That spring, he had a string of bad things happen to him - a coworker died right in front of him, he lost his job, etc. I thought that continuing to talk to him was the only charitable thing to do.....

Turns out, it took him over a year to get over me. He didn't really believe things were over until he met my new boyfriend. And why did he think he still had a chance with me? Maybe because...I let him think that way. As much as I thought I was being crystal clear in saying 'no, never going to happen,' the fact that I continued to make time for him, to talk to him, and even (on occasion) agreed to see him [never on a 'date'] gave him false hope and didn't let him heal. In the end, I had to drive the point home [i]very[/i] cruelly.

So, here's the scenario. He tells me he's going to be driving by my college on his way home, and can he stop by and visit? At this point, it's a little over a year since we broke up...and he knows I've been dating a guy for a few weeks/a month. I tell him, sure, he can stop by in the afternoon, but I have plans in the evening. My boyfriend had work to do that afternoon, but of course I had promised to spend Sat. evening with him. So, ex stops by, and he and I and my roommate chit-chat throughout the afternoon. He's parked himself on the couch and complains of being tired from his long drive, and maybe he's not going to make it home...basically, he threatens to fall asleep on my couch and refuses to leave (albeit very passive-aggressively). I know it's a mind game, but it puts me in a bit of a dilemma. I can leave him there with my roommate (awkward for her!) and go out with my bf. Or I can cancel my plans with my bf and entertain the ex for the evening (caving into his manipulation). Or...I could do what I did. Which was to call my bf and invite him over, explaining that I was a bit stuck because my guest hadn't left yet, but of course I still wanted to see him (he knew my ex was coming by). So, he showed up, and (surprise, surprise), my ex decided he was alright to drive home after all. My roommate yelled at me afterwards for being so heartless to the poor guy, but my parents told me I had done the right thing. My dad said I needed to show him that he wasn't the most important person in my life - that I had chosen the new bf over him.

About 6 mo. later, he found himself a new girlfriend, something he would never have done if he'd still been hoping to get back together with me.


He is now happily married, has a beautiful daughter, and a son on the way. I still see him and talk to him, because I am good friends with his wife. (I was maid of honor at his wedding and am godmother to his daughter - because of his wife, not because of him.) I don't have much one-on-one interaction with him anymore, though, and that's fine with both of us. It's also been over 10 years since all of this happened.

So, I know I didn't handle the situation well. Looking back, I can see how much I hurt him by dragging things on. I *thought* I was being nice or charitable or a good friend...but I wasn't. That's why I'm letting you know that [i]saying[/i] 'I'm sorry, but no, I will not marry you' is not enough. Your actions have to make it clear, too. Crystal clear. And that means...severing the friendship. [b]TB[/b] is right. You can 'let him down easy' if you feel you have to, by explaining that you think he'll make a very good husband to some other girl, and that you will of course continue to pray for him....but then you have to end it. It's probably better if you just don't talk to him again at all. He will not hear the 'no' - he'll just hear 'she cares about me! she's talking to me!'

I'm sorry. I know this isn't easy.
[/quote]

Mith,

Thanks so much for sharing this and for your response. It isn't easy (not so much because I don't want to end the friendship but because I don't want to end it on a bad note) I do feel that he is being disrespectful by not honoring my decision but at the same time, I keep thinking that I don't need to be brutal to get my point across (though I am seeing that this is a false logic)

I guess I won't ignore his next call and will just give it to him straight.

[HopefulBride]

[quote name='TeresaBenedicta' timestamp='1296570385' post='2207393']
Or don't talk to him again. Frankly, I think you'd be well within the boundaries of charity [i]not[/i] speaking to him again. You've used words before. It's not that he hasn't heard you or even understood you. It's that he doesn't [i]respect[/i] you enough to listen. You can say no again and again, more forcefully each time... but honestly, I think at this point the old adage is truer than ever: Actions speak louder than words. Don't contact him again. Don't try and explain again. He has the words; he'll remember them. But now there's action to seal it up.
[/quote]


You are right on the money about eh respect thing TB. I just need to stop trying to spare his feelings and get my point accross. I always have this problem, with worrying about people's feelings, especially if I know they tend to be more on the sensitive side. Come to think of it, I think like Mith's ex he might be taking advantage of that.

[vee]

[quote name='TeresaBenedicta' timestamp='1296570385' post='2207393']
Or don't talk to him again. Frankly, I think you'd be well within the boundaries of charity [i]not[/i] speaking to him again. You've used words before. [b] It's not that he hasn't heard you or even understood you. It's that he doesn't [i]respect[/i] you enough to listen. [/b] You can say no again and again, more forcefully each time... but honestly, I think at this point the old adage is truer than ever: Actions speak louder than words. Don't contact him again. Don't try and explain again. He has the words; he'll remember them. But now there's action to seal it up.
[/quote]


[quote name='MithLuin' timestamp='1296574524' post='2207405']
..but then you have to end it. It's probably better if you just don't talk to him again at all. [b]He will not hear the 'no' - he'll just hear 'she cares about me! she's talking to me!'[/b]

I'm sorry. I know this isn't easy.
[/quote]

THESE!!!! A million times these!!

[Papist]

[font=Tahoma][size=2]The loving thing to do is be honest and straight with him,and not let him believe there is hope you will marry him. I agree that a clear,to the point approach is best. Leave no room for ambiguity. I alsoagree it is best that you both part ways in lieu of being a hindrance to eachother in your search of your true vocation.[/size][/font]

[font=Tahoma][size=2]Tip: I recommend having this conversation in a public venue.[/size][/font]

[font=Tahoma][size=2] God bless you![/size][/font]