First Vows Or Final Vows

[Santa Cruz]

[quote name='Chiquitunga' timestamp='1296192902' post='2205595']
That's beautiful and I agree, since we are already incorporated into His Body, the Church, His Bride. And we can already be very intimate with Him, whereas with marriage on earth, one has to wait (at least according to the law of God) until they've taken vows - so it is different. Also, there are several mystics who already called Jesus their Spouse before their profession in religious life .. specifically I remember well in [i][url="https://www.tanbooks.com/index.php/Way-of-Divine-Love-Large-Edition"]The Way of Divine Love[/url][/i], Our Lord calling Sr. Josefa His bride .. and she replied by saying .. "but Lord, I am only a Novice" and He said something like .. but remember the promise we made .. I will have to go find it .. it was beautiful (and if I remember correctly Sr. Josefa never made it until final vows anyway, she died four years into religious life)

Something else as long as I'm on the subject .. it is possible also to make a private vow before one enters, which I wish I had thought of earlier on in my discernment. My confessor has only let me take a temporary one for now, but my goal is to renew it with a perpetual one before entrance. I've been discerning for some time and am anxious to be bound to Him in some way at least as soon as possible! Also, I have a friend who's spiritual director recommended this for her too, and he even recommended she get a ring so he could bless it. I have heard of several saints making such private vows too .. I think this was more common back then. St. Teresa of the Andes for instance made a private vow many times to her confessor before she entered. He only let her make it for a few weeks at a time, if I remember correctly, but she said in her heart it was forever!

But back to the original question of this thread, I agree with many here in that the final vows are the most important. I do know/have met a couple who were in Carmel and another community who left after the three years in temporary vows, and I imagine that experience would be even harder if a great deal of importance was given to the temporary profession - not that it's not important - it is.

On another note, something I recently read in the old OCD Ceremonial I have is that the anniversary of one's vows is counted from the First Profession .. something I didn't realize before.
[/quote]


Chiquitunga,

Thank you for sharing this all! Ah, a breath of fresh air. I have not read "The Way of Divine Love" but will do so asap. I know all about the loooong discernment but surely as you know God is present in the process of our listening and waiting and even right now we are serving Him, glorifying Him and praising HIm as we journey ever deeper into His Sacred Heart.

[franciscanheart]

[quote name='Chiquitunga' timestamp='1296192902' post='2205595']
That's beautiful and I agree, since we are already incorporated into His Body, the Church, His Bride. And we can already be very intimate with Him, whereas with marriage on earth, one has to wait (at least according to the law of God) until they've taken vows - so it is different. Also, there are several mystics who already called Jesus their Spouse before their profession in religious life .. specifically I remember well in [i][url="https://www.tanbooks.com/index.php/Way-of-Divine-Love-Large-Edition"]The Way of Divine Love[/url][/i], Our Lord calling Sr. Josefa His bride .. and she replied by saying .. "but Lord, I am only a Novice" and He said something like .. but remember the promise we made .. I will have to go find it .. it was beautiful (and if I remember correctly Sr. Josefa never made it until final vows anyway, she died four years into religious life)

Something else as long as I'm on the subject .. it is possible also to make a private vow before one enters, which I wish I had thought of earlier on in my discernment. My confessor has only let me take a temporary one for now, but my goal is to renew it with a perpetual one before entrance. I've been discerning for some time and am anxious to be bound to Him in some way at least as soon as possible! Also, I have a friend who's spiritual director recommended this for her too, and he even recommended she get a ring so he could bless it. I have heard of several saints making such private vows too .. I think this was more common back then. St. Teresa of the Andes for instance made a private vow many times to her confessor before she entered. He only let her make it for a few weeks at a time, if I remember correctly, but she said in her heart it was forever!

But back to the original question of this thread, I agree with many here in that the final vows are the most important. I do know/have met a couple who were in Carmel and another community who left after the three years in temporary vows, and I imagine that experience would be even harder if a great deal of importance was given to the temporary profession - not that it's not important - it is.

On another note, something I recently read in the old OCD Ceremonial I have is that the anniversary of one's vows is counted from the First Profession .. something I didn't realize before.
[/quote]
I love this so much. I've been considering for some time a band to wear even though I am not yet living in community or taken final vows. I think I might proceed with this... (I had a band that I knew in my heart was THAT band but never wore it on a finger that would be obvious. I lost it in the snow this year (YES IN TEXAS) and I was very sad. It slipped right off and I never found it.)

[MissScripture]

[quote name='jruss' timestamp='1296174339' post='2205415']
My daughter is making her first vows this summer and my parish is chartering a bus to take people down for the event; and we are 10 hours away! (She is very loved here). It got me wondering which event is more important to the sister, first vows or final vows? My daughter said they consider the first vows to be their "wedding" since it is intended for life, but final vows are. . . well. . .final?? It is at the first vows that the sisters are officially part of the congregation as well.
[/quote]
For the NDs I'm pretty sure first vows is the bigger deal. And I agree with people that it doesn't quite fit the marriage analogy, but first vows IS what they call their wedding day, and my sister informed me if I mention that it doesn't quite make sense on her first vows day, she will slug me! So, yeah...at least with the NDs, first vows are the biggie!

[Sarah147]

I was blown away when I heard about the "second baptism" that people get at final vows. Wow!

[DameAgnes]

Passionist nuns also receive a ring at first profession.

[tarc]

[quote name='JoyfulLife' timestamp='1296183056' post='2205495']
I look at aspirancy, postulancy and novitiate as the courtship. Temporary vows each year as engagement and anniversary of engagement. And final vows as the wedding; you get a ring, you sign the papers that then get sent to the Vatican; you're in forever, under the sacrament.

I don't see temporary vows as AS important because you can still leave.
[/quote]

OT: Why are they sent to Rome?

[abrideofChrist]

Personally, I'd consider first vows to be a formal engagement. A very important engagement. Psychologically, it is difficult for someone to continue to have an open heart and mind in the discernment process if one makes temporary vows with the intention of them being lifelong. Continued discernment is critical during those 3-6 years of temporary vows both on the part of the sister/brother and on the community. This is one of the reasons that the Church has asked that liturgically, investiture and first vows have simple ceremonies, and the final profession have the prominence it deserves (hence the revised Rite for Professions). Too many people I know who have left religious life after temporary profession have had seriously guilty feelings about letting their "Spouse" down, and that is simply not the case. First vows makes you officially part of the community and inserts you into the consecrated state (temporarily) but it is still a testing period. Testing for you to see if it really is your vocation when you're living the real life and not the sheltered novitiate life, and testing for the community to see if you fit as a person with greater responsibility and freedoms from novitiate restrictions.

[Lilllabettt]

[quote name='abrideofChrist' timestamp='1296256311' post='2206098']
Personally, I'd consider first vows to be a formal engagement. A very important engagement. Psychologically, it is difficult for someone to continue to have an open heart and mind in the discernment process if one makes temporary vows with the intention of them being lifelong.
[/quote]


I'm pretty sure that for temporary vows to be valid, you have to make them with the intention of staying for life.

[Sarah147]

[quote name='tarc' timestamp='1296255856' post='2206091']
OT: Why are they sent to Rome?
[/quote]


That's what I was told. The Vatican keeps a record of solemn professed religious. To ever leave after final vows, you need to get the okay from the Vatican. That's what I was told. So the Vatican knows something's up when religious are leaving an order; they can tell. Hence the reason they are cracking down on orders now. The Pope is serious about this.

Edited January 28, 2011 by JoyfulLife

[abrideofChrist]

If you are making temporary vows, you might *wish* that they are for life, but in actuality, you make them with the intention to keep them for the duration promised (a period of usually 1-3 years). The vow formula for first profession is different than final because it has a time limit on it. So for example, I have at my elbow a Vatican approved temporary vow formula one community uses that reads "I, Sister N of N, make my profession of temporary vows for three years and I promise......". The intention is not and should not be staying for life as it is still a period of discernment. The sister may wish to stay for life, but she is vowing to follow the evangelical counsels according to the community's statutes for a specific period of time. This is to protect her and the community as they discern. Temporary vows are just that. Temporary. They are there to experience the life in a more committed (but not finally committed way). The history of religious vows is fascinating, and one part of it is why the concept of temporary vows arose, and why the Vatican asks for long periods of formation today.

edited to add the solemn profession formula: "I Sister N of N, make my solemn profession and I promise.... until death."


[quote name='Lilllabettt' timestamp='1296257041' post='2206111']
I'm pretty sure that for temporary vows to be valid, you have to make them with the intention of staying for life.
[/quote]

Edited January 29, 2011 by abrideofChrist

[tarc]

[quote name='JoyfulLife' timestamp='1296257745' post='2206124']
That's what I was told. The Vatican keeps a record of solemn professed religious. To ever leave after final vows, you need to get the okay from the Vatican. That's what I was told. So the Vatican knows something's up when religious are leaving an order; they can tell. Hence the reason they are cracking down on orders now. The Pope is serious about this.
[/quote]

Thanks.

[abrideofChrist]

This is correct for Pontifical Right communities in that the communities are required to keep the Vatican updated as to the names of their finally professed members and in that the Pope (or Congregation for the Institutes of Consecrated Life and Societies of Apostolic Life) is alone qualified to dispense from their vows. For those members of communities of Diocesan Right, the vows are monitored by the Diocesan Bishop and he's the one who dispenses from final vows. The Vatican does keep tab on diocesan right vocations too, and the bishops report numbers on their reports to Rome, but it is the bishop who does the dispensations.

[quote name='JoyfulLife' timestamp='1296257745' post='2206124']
That's what I was told. The Vatican keeps a record of solemn professed religious. To ever leave after final vows, you need to get the okay from the Vatican. That's what I was told. So the Vatican knows something's up when religious are leaving an order; they can tell. Hence the reason they are cracking down on orders now. The Pope is serious about this.
[/quote]

[Sister Marie]

[quote name='Lilllabettt' timestamp='1296257041' post='2206111']
I'm pretty sure that for temporary vows to be valid, you have to make them with the intention of staying for life.
[/quote]

[font="Arial"][size="2"]I don't think validity is the term I would use because there are four points in canon law that are outlined as making a profession invalid. But, I definitely agree with you that first vows are meant to be made with the intention of making them perpetually. I still can't agree with the idea of it being an engagement because with the profession of first vows a sister is charged with the responsibilities and effects of a spousal relationship with Christ. If we look to the engagement period in a spousal image; the couple is not living together, has not put two lives into one, and has no legal or canonical responsibility to their commitment. That is not the case for a sister in temporary vows. At my first vows, when the priest put my ring on my finger he said, "Sister, receive this ring for you are [b]betrothed[/b] to the Eternal King." I think that is a better word than engaged.[/size][/font]
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[font="Arial"][/font][font="Arial"][size="2"]In the time of Jesus, betrothal was much more than an engagement and required a divorce to be dissolved even though it was the first step in marriage.
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[font="Arial"][size="2"]The sister in temporary vows is living the life of the sister in final vows. She has the same obligations as such. [/size][/font][font=Arial][size=2]A sister in temporary vows must be released from her vows by her superior if she wishes to leave before they expire. [/size][/font][font=Arial][size=2]However, the novice may leave at any time. At reception to the novitiate we are told that we will be tested. All the language about the novitiate states that it is the time for testing the vocation of the novice. [/size][/font]
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[font=Arial][size=2]Canon Law says about temporary profession, "By religious profession, members assume the observance of the three evangelical counsels by [b]public vow[/b], are [b]consecrated to God through the ministry of the Church[/b], and are[b] incorporated into the institute[/b] with the rights and duties defined by law (Canon 654, my bold)." Public vows, consecration and incorporation all raise the level of commitment above an "engagement" period. [/size][/font][font=Arial][size=2]Again though, final vows are the most important and the ceremonies should reflect that revision of the rite of profession. [/size][/font]
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[font=Arial][size=2]I thought I would be sick the day of my profession (in a good way [/size][/font][img]http://www.phatmass.com/phorum/public/style_emoticons/default/dance.gif[/img][font=Arial][size=2]) because it made me so nervous to think of what a huge commitment I was making. It wasn't the same as receiving the habit and the rule to learn and be tested. I was saying publicly that I promised to live chastity, poverty, and obedience in my religious institute. I didn't say that I would try it out, or that I would do my best and see what happened, or that at some point in the future I would live the vows. I vowed to do it from that moment on. And two days later I moved to my new mission and began my apostolate and my life in community as a participating member. It was great and the grace that comes from that public consecration is necessary to live the life. Religious life is hard and we need the grace that comes with making vows - the vows are what you look to when there is a difficulty, a joy, a hardship, a doubt. [/size][/font]
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[font=Arial][size=2]I think this is a great topic because there is no clear answer but I like thinking about things like this. The analogy doesn't quite work here and I think it is quite interesting and I'm enjoying reading everyone's opinions. [/size][/font]

[Sarah147]

It's scary. Marriage or final vows. But thankfully, it can be like 8 years in an order before final vows, so by then, you should know for sure it it's the one and you are indeed called.

[abrideofChrist]

I congratulate you upon having made your vows. Nevertheless, I would beg to differ in opinion on the subject of temporary profession. The sister in temporary vows does not have the same obligations as those in final vows. Some differences include voting privileges, etc. Other differences can be significant such as in owning property in first vows vs. not owning property in solemn vows. Second, they are not meant to be made with the intention of making them perpetually. The Church understands vows to be what is literally said and in temporary vows, they are intended to be temporary with a view of testing one's vocation. They are meant to be made with the *hope* of making them perpetually and with the pledge to live the life as fully as one can.... A woman isn't sure she's called to religious life until she makes her final profession, anymore than a person who's gone through seminary is sure until he's ordained. Temporary profession is there to test the vocation of the brother/sister. It is not a lifelong commitment and therefore not a real espousal to Christ, which needs to be permanent/lifelong. More significant than an engagement? Not really. An engagement is a promise of marriage. Temporary vows are a promise to observe the evangelical counsels according to a certain way of life for a certain period of time with a view towards possibly making it a lifetime commitment. Once those temporary vows expire, one is perfectly free to depart from the community or be kicked out.

[quote name='Sister Marie' timestamp='1296262449' post='2206164']
[font="Arial"][size="2"]I don't think validity is the term I would use because there are four points in canon law that are outlined as making a profession invalid. But, I definitely agree with you that first vows are meant to be made with the intention of making them perpetually. I still can't agree with the idea of it being an engagement because with the profession of first vows a sister is charged with the responsibilities and effects of a spousal relationship with Christ. If we look to the engagement period in a spousal image; the couple is not living together, has not put two lives into one, and has no legal or canonical responsibility to their commitment. That is not the case for a sister in temporary vows. At my first vows, when the priest put my ring on my finger he said, "Sister, receive this ring for you are [b]betrothed[/b] to the Eternal King." I think that is a better word than engaged.[/size][/font]

[font="Arial"][size="2"]The sister in temporary vows is living the life of the sister in final vows. She has the same obligations as such. [/size][/font][font="Arial"][size="2"]A sister in temporary vows must be released from her vows by her superior if she wishes to leave before they expire. [/size][/font][font="Arial"][size="2"]However, the novice may leave at any time. At reception to the novitiate we are told that we will be tested. All the language about the novitiate states that it is the time for testing the vocation of the novice. [/size][/font]
[font="Arial"] [/font]
[font="Arial"][size="2"]Canon Law says about temporary profession, "By religious profession, members assume the observance of the three evangelical counsels by [b]public vow[/b], are [b]consecrated to God through the ministry of the Church[/b], and are[b] incorporated into the institute[/b] with the rights and duties defined by law (Canon 654, my bold)." Public vows, consecration and incorporation all raise the level of commitment above an "engagement" period. [/size][/font][font="Arial"][size="2"]Again though, final vows are the most important and the ceremonies should reflect that revision of the rite of profession. [/size][/font]

[/quote]