jruss Posted January 28, 2011 Share Posted January 28, 2011 My daughter is making her first vows this summer and my parish is chartering a bus to take people down for the event; and we are 10 hours away! (She is very loved here). It got me wondering which event is more important to the sister, first vows or final vows? My daughter said they consider the first vows to be their "wedding" since it is intended for life, but final vows are. . . well. . .final?? It is at the first vows that the sisters are officially part of the congregation as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sarah147 Posted January 28, 2011 Share Posted January 28, 2011 Huh? I thought final vows were the wedding. You lock in your vows forever. Prior to that is engagement. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sarah147 Posted January 28, 2011 Share Posted January 28, 2011 Welcome to the board! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stlmom Posted January 28, 2011 Share Posted January 28, 2011 Just a laywoman's opinion here--final vows, because it is a life commitment at that point. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarisStella Posted January 28, 2011 Share Posted January 28, 2011 I remember Sr. Mary Emily saying "The first time is the best." when she was talking about vows. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TeresaBenedicta Posted January 28, 2011 Share Posted January 28, 2011 I've heard first vows is the wedding. Interesting question, though. I mean, when you make vows for the first time... you do so with the intention of it being forever-- not that you're going to live this year and then take off. And it is then that you truly become a spouse of Christ. Final vows are important, too, of course. Forever becomes forever. I think this is a case of where the wedding imagery doesn't [i]exactly[/i] match up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ameliabedelia Posted January 28, 2011 Share Posted January 28, 2011 [quote name='MarisStella' timestamp='1296177693' post='2205461'] I remember Sr. Mary Emily saying "The first time is the best." when she was talking about vows. [/quote] I love her so much!!!!! [img]http://www.phatmass.com/phorum/public/style_emoticons/default/hehe.gif[/img] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sarah147 Posted January 28, 2011 Share Posted January 28, 2011 (edited) I look at aspirancy, postulancy and novitiate as the courtship. Temporary vows each year as engagement and anniversary of engagement. And final vows as the wedding; you get a ring, you sign the papers that then get sent to the Vatican; you're in forever, under the sacrament. I don't see temporary vows as AS important because you can still leave. Edited January 28, 2011 by JoyfulLife Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vee Posted January 28, 2011 Share Posted January 28, 2011 Congrats on your daughter making her first vows!!!! On the planet I live on (population me) final vows would be the most important because that means for LIFE. Until that point I could leave or be asked to leave. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
krissylou Posted January 28, 2011 Share Posted January 28, 2011 From what I've seen, I *think* most communities have the Big Parties for perpetual professions. I was surprised to hear about chartering a bus for a first profession, but I wouldn't be as surprised for a perpetual profession. It's common to have the bishop celebrate the Mass for perpetual professions, not so much for first. So all that would imply that the perpetual profession is the Big Deal. But Jubilees are calculated from first professions. So hmmm.From what I've seen, I *think* most communities have the Big Parties for perpetual professions. I was surprised to hear about chartering a bus for a first profession, but I wouldn't be as surprised for a perpetual profession. It's common to have the bishop celebrate the Mass for perpetual professions, not so much for first. So all that would imply that the perpetual profession is the Big Deal. But Jubilees are calculated from first professions. So hmmm. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dominicansoul Posted January 28, 2011 Share Posted January 28, 2011 ...think of it, like, receiving your First Holy Communion...that is not the final Communion, but it is life-changing...because you are receiving the Lord for the very first time... think of the vows in the same way...ur daughter will be wed to Christ...at least for two years...but nonetheless, she becomes His Bride...the rest of the vows become a "renewal" of Vows...so, I probably would think the very first vows are the most special... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sister Marie Posted January 28, 2011 Share Posted January 28, 2011 [quote name='JoyfulLife' timestamp='1296183056' post='2205495'] I look at aspirancy, postulancy and novitiate as the courtship. Temporary vows each year as engagement and anniversary of engagement. And final vows as the wedding; you get a ring, you sign the papers that then get sent to the Vatican; you're in forever, under the sacrament. I don't see temporary vows as AS important because you can still leave. [/quote] In my community we receive our ring at first profession as do a few communities I know. Our rings are engraved with the words "Ego te Sponsabo" [i]to you I am espoused[/i]. Someone else said that the bridal imagery doesn't work very well in this part of the formation process and they are right. I wouldn't say that first vows are engagement though because vows are vows and first vows are made with the intention of them being for life. As my rings says, I am espoused, not engaged. A very concrete commitment has been made with responsibilities and consequences. At final vows, sisters in my community have their rings engraved on the outside of the band with the hearts of Jesus and Mary pierced by a sword. Religious profession is not a sacrament though. It is an extension of Baptismal consecration where some are called to consecrate themselves to following Christ by the evangelical counsels. That said, I think that final vows are the most important because "forever is forever," but that the intention of first vows is for them to be forever. They are both important but in different ways and degrees. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Santa Cruz Posted January 28, 2011 Share Posted January 28, 2011 Congrats jruss on your daughter's first profession. What a blessing! It is my understanding that Solemn Profession is the big celebration as she is forever a bride of Christ. However, I would think even the Clothing, when she received her wedding gown could have been the most special day. I liken the journey into religious life, from discernment into Solemn Profession, to the Jewish tradition of espousal happening before the husband and wife come together. My spiritual director too has told me that even now, as a layperson discerning religious life, Christ can be my Spouse. The Church thereby recognizes what has already taken place upon Solemn Profession. For instance, Mary and Joseph were espoused (legally husband and wife) before they came together in marriage as was Jewish custom. So why not rejoice in her First Profession as the day of marriage? And her Solemn Profession could be even bigger, with 2 busloads. If the community she is part of is okay with it and she welcomes the party, then why not? Your daughter must be speaking from what is going on internally between herself and our Lord. I speak from no authority though. Just a clueless discerner. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OnlySunshine Posted January 28, 2011 Share Posted January 28, 2011 (edited) I think the first vows are the most exhilarating for any new bride of Christ. It is like your wedding and it is new and you are finally becoming an official member of the religious community. As a Sister/nun in most orders, you receive the black veil which signifies that you are wedded to Christ after your first vows. The ceremony is supposed to signify a lifetime commitment that isn't exactly final yet, but anyone who makes vows obviously takes religious life seriously and both they and the religious order have discerned that they belong at that time and they are mature enough to go through the next step. Final vows, are obviously, the most special because they mean a lifetime commitment and you will be there until death. Edited January 28, 2011 by MaterMisericordiae Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chiquitunga Posted January 28, 2011 Share Posted January 28, 2011 (edited) [quote name='Santa Cruz' timestamp='1296185551' post='2205524'] My spiritual director too has told me that even now, as a layperson discerning religious life, Christ can be my Spouse.[/quote] That's beautiful and I agree, since we are already incorporated into His Body, the Church, His Bride. And we can already be very intimate with Him, whereas with marriage on earth, one has to wait (at least according to the law of God) until they've taken vows - so it is different. Also, there are several mystics who already called Jesus their Spouse before their profession in religious life .. specifically I remember well in [i][url="https://www.tanbooks.com/index.php/Way-of-Divine-Love-Large-Edition"]The Way of Divine Love[/url][/i], Our Lord calling Sr. Josefa His bride .. and she replied by saying .. "but Lord, I am only a Novice" and He said something like .. but remember the promise we made .. I will have to go find it .. it was beautiful (and if I remember correctly Sr. Josefa never made it until final vows anyway, she died four years into religious life) Something else as long as I'm on the subject .. it is possible also to make a private vow before one enters, which I wish I had thought of earlier on in my discernment. My confessor has only let me take a temporary one for now, but my goal is to renew it with a perpetual one before entrance. I've been discerning for some time and am anxious to be bound to Him in some way at least as soon as possible! Also, I have a friend who's spiritual director recommended this for her too, and he even recommended she get a ring so he could bless it. I have heard of several saints making such private vows too .. I think this was more common back then. St. Teresa of the Andes for instance made a private vow many times to her confessor before she entered. He only let her make it for a few weeks at a time, if I remember correctly, but she said in her heart it was forever! But back to the original question of this thread, I agree with many here in that the final vows are the most important. I do know/have met a couple who were in Carmel and another community who left after the three years in temporary vows, and I imagine that experience would be even harder if a great deal of importance was given to the temporary profession - not that it's not important - it is. On another note, something I recently read in the old OCD Ceremonial I have is that the anniversary of one's vows is counted from the First Profession .. something I didn't realize before. Edited January 28, 2011 by Chiquitunga Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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