Sternhauser Posted January 27, 2011 Share Posted January 27, 2011 [quote name='Nihil Obstat' timestamp='1296165614' post='2205279'] I agree 100%. Blue amber is another example. Now *that* is a unique object. [/quote] I've never even heard of that. [Pique] ~Sternhauser Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nihil Obstat Posted January 27, 2011 Share Posted January 27, 2011 [quote name='rkwright' timestamp='1296165690' post='2205282'] Well given the recent press I would agrue that it may be a "higher" degree of cooperation. I haven't thought this through - but I wonder how responsible one is in "supporting" the state when its laws in some way create a black market that creates more crime. Anything the state makes illegal creates some sort of black market which usually involves some sort of violence, potentially innocent people being killed. For example; prostitiution is illegal, so that creates a "black market" for prostitution, which in turn makes it unsafe for prostitutes and others. Are those that wish prostitution illegal formally cooperating in the death of the prostitute? [/quote] Formally? I doubt it. I think formal cooperation implies full knowledge of the consequences. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sternhauser Posted January 27, 2011 Share Posted January 27, 2011 (edited) [quote name='rkwright' timestamp='1296165690' post='2205282'] Well given the recent press I would agrue that it may be a "higher" degree of cooperation. I haven't thought this through - but I wonder how responsible one is in "supporting" the state when its laws in some way create a black market that creates more crime. Anything the state makes illegal creates some sort of black market which usually involves some sort of violence, potentially innocent people being killed. For example; prostitiution is illegal, so that creates a "black market" for prostitution, which in turn makes it unsafe for prostitutes and others. Are those that wish prostitution illegal formally cooperating in the death of the prostitute? [/quote] St. Thomas probably thought they'd have a higher degree of responsibility. He was opposed to the prohibition of prostitution. Nihil is correct when he says that formal cooperation would require an understanding about the consequences. It would not be formal cooperation unless one's end in supporting the law was indistinguishable from supporting the death of the prostitute. ~Sternhauser Edited January 27, 2011 by Sternhauser Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nihil Obstat Posted January 27, 2011 Share Posted January 27, 2011 (edited) [quote name='Sternhauser' timestamp='1296165741' post='2205283'] I've never even heard of that. [Pique] ~Sternhauser [/quote] (Naturally) Blue amber is a type of amber (which is cool enough on its own) which is coloured in such a way that it actually looks completely different depending on lighting conditions. [img]http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/b/b7/Spaceblue1.jpg/200px-Spaceblue1.jpg[/img] [img]http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/1/13/Spaceblue2.jpg/200px-Spaceblue2.jpg[/img] Same piece, believe it or not. Only difference is from where the light was coming. Also glows under UV light. It's extremely rare. Naturally rare. Actually interesting too. Edited January 27, 2011 by Nihil Obstat Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rkwright Posted January 27, 2011 Share Posted January 27, 2011 [quote name='Nihil Obstat' timestamp='1296165755' post='2205285'] Formally? I doubt it. I think formal cooperation implies full knowledge of the consequences. [/quote] Perhaps it is subjective. It seems reasonable to me that some people know fully well of the consequences. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rachael Posted January 27, 2011 Share Posted January 27, 2011 (edited) [quote name='JoyfulLife' timestamp='1296159992' post='2205198'] It's illegal as far as I know. I've heard it can cause hallucinations, unreality, delusions, psychosis, craziness, etc. Nooooooooooo thank you. A totally different ballgame from having a glass of martini, margarita, wine, etc. Just say no to drugs, eh? [/quote] Does this include prescriptions? [quote name='kujo' timestamp='1296163927' post='2205256'] Context never gets in the way of a Socrates (Socratic?) argument. [/quote] And it never will. Edited January 27, 2011 by rachael Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rkwright Posted January 27, 2011 Share Posted January 27, 2011 [quote name='Sternhauser' timestamp='1296165821' post='2205286'] St. Thomas probably thought they'd have a higher degree of responsibility. He was opposed to the prohibition of prostitution. Nihil is correct when he says that formal cooperation would require an understanding about the consequences. It would not be formal cooperation unless one's end in supporting the law was indistinguishable from supporting the death of the prostitute. ~Sternhauser [/quote] Well then I don't see how law enforcement (the state) is formally cooperating in a cartel killing someone in Mexico when they take a dealer off the streets. Their end is not to cause death anywhere else, but to enforce the laws here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sternhauser Posted January 27, 2011 Share Posted January 27, 2011 [quote name='Nihil Obstat' timestamp='1296165960' post='2205287'] (Naturally) Blue amber is a type of amber (which is cool enough on its own) which is coloured in such a way that it actually looks completely different depending on lighting conditions. [img]http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/b/b7/Spaceblue1.jpg/200px-Spaceblue1.jpg[/img] [img]http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/1/13/Spaceblue2.jpg/200px-Spaceblue2.jpg[/img] Same piece, believe it or not. Only difference is from where the light was coming. Also glows under UV light. It's extremely rare. Naturally rare. Actually interesting too. [/quote] That is gorgeous. ~Sternhauser Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted January 27, 2011 Share Posted January 27, 2011 [quote name='Nihil Obstat' timestamp='1296165960' post='2205287'] (Naturally) Blue amber is a type of amber (which is cool enough on its own) which is coloured in such a way that it actually looks completely different depending on lighting conditions. [img]http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/b/b7/Spaceblue1.jpg/200px-Spaceblue1.jpg[/img] [img]http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/1/13/Spaceblue2.jpg/200px-Spaceblue2.jpg[/img] Same piece, believe it or not. Only difference is from where the light was coming. Also glows under UV light. It's extremely rare. Naturally rare. Actually interesting too. [/quote] That's pretty sweet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Papist Posted January 27, 2011 Share Posted January 27, 2011 [quote name='Nihil Obstat' timestamp='1296162393' post='2205231'] Stern is right, that logic is valid. If those are the reasons we are to be opposed to marijuana, we must also be opposed to alcohol. It's just valid logic, so instead we have to debate on soundness. Alcohol also "dims reason and potentially is damaging to the integrity of one's body and soul", and "alters brain function". Yet alcohol is legal, as it should be. Alcohol is moral to take into one's body in moderation. In fact it is a great thing in moderation. Why should we treat marijuana differently? Yes, thank you. [/quote] Does that make Fr.'s logic to be it is immoral to receive the Blood of Chirst? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nihil Obstat Posted January 27, 2011 Share Posted January 27, 2011 I agree. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sternhauser Posted January 27, 2011 Share Posted January 27, 2011 [quote name='rkwright' timestamp='1296166112' post='2205290'] Well then I don't see how law enforcement (the state) is formally cooperating in a cartel killing someone in Mexico when they take a dealer off the streets. Their end is not to cause death anywhere else, but to enforce the laws here. [/quote] It's true: such participation is not usually formal cooperation. It is, however, far more proximate material cooperation. On the other hand, because the prohibition enforcement/violence link should be painfully obvious to a rational person, it might very well be bordering on formal, depending on how invincible the ignorance is. ~Sternhauser Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nihil Obstat Posted January 27, 2011 Share Posted January 27, 2011 [quote name='Papist' timestamp='1296166306' post='2205298'] Does that make Fr.'s logic to be it is immoral to receive the Blood of Chirst? [/quote] The logic is there and already laid out. What do you think? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Papist Posted January 27, 2011 Share Posted January 27, 2011 [quote name='Nihil Obstat' timestamp='1296166357' post='2205301'] The logic is there and already laid out. What do you think? [/quote] I think Fr. makes a good case against the legalization of marijuana regardless of my stance and regardless of any other substance[legal or illegal]. I think it a shame to take away from the article that if alcohol is legal, then so should marijuana and if marijuana is illegal, then alcohol should be, and ignore Fr.'s points. The article is not a marijuana-alcohol comparison. That perhaps could be a seperate thread. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nihil Obstat Posted January 27, 2011 Share Posted January 27, 2011 [quote name='Papist' timestamp='1296167274' post='2205309'] I think Fr. makes a good case against the legalization of marijuana regardless of my stance and regardless of any other substance[legal or illegal]. I think it a shame to take away from the article that if alcohol is legal, then so should marijuana and if marijuana is illegal, then alcohol should be, and ignore Fr.'s points. The article is not a marijuana-alcohol comparison. That perhaps could be a seperate thread. [/quote] His arguments apply perfectly to alcohol as well as they do to marijuana. Where's the problem with that? It's just transitive logic. Very basic. If X is bad because it alters the mind and can harm the soul, then if Y alters the mind and can harm the soul, then Y is also bad. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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