Can I Baptise Non Christian ?

[MIKolbe]

a sammy blaze concert, too???

[Guest]

[Guest]

[quote name='Mark of the Cross' timestamp='1296077415' post='2204714']
Thanks Nihil I was hoping someone would bring up Baptism of desire Etc. My understanding is that DB need not be overly concerned about baptising his friend rather concentrate on bringing him to RCIA. and the instruction of truth. If his friend should die and he was destined for baptism then he would be considered to have 'Baptism of desire' or one of those other things you mentioned. If he wasn't then baptism may not help, possibly. My confidence is down at the moment, you can tell can't you?
[/quote]
I didn't realise you were my elder mark. I'm sorry for any disresperct. I had it in my mind you were a kid. And we clashed on the I haven't had sex in 3 years thread so I might have brought a little of that to over here. Anyways sorry and Godbless.

[JenDeMaria]

I think there's a fuller answer to this question -- and it's important, because Evangelicals who convert are often confused as to why the Catholic church wants them to wait almost an entire year "to be saved".

However, numerous saints, including Padre Pio, have pointed out that we should have no reason to be anxious (about anything in life) if we will only remember the first article of the creed "I believe in God the father almighty, creator of heaven and earth." You see, in that one word "almighty" all the other words that describe God, including descriptions such as all-knowing, all-present, purely good, etc, are contained. Our lives, then, are entirely within the hands of an all-good, all-knowing God who loves us and wills us only the best. We may have reasons for concern, then, but never anxiety.

God sees us from the inside out. He knows our intentions, without the distortions we humans experience as a result of Original Sin. He knows all our intentions from the past, our intentions in this moment and our intentions that we will form in the future. He knows our love for Him, our willingness to accept Him far better than we know it ourselves -- or our refusal to see Him and accept Him, due to our preference for temporal pleasures or simply our own ego. And God, who is all good, desires that all should be saved, though He allows some to be hardhearted enough to refuse salvation, freely choosing damnation instead.

God does not get distracted and forget you were going to be crossing the street at noon and, well, dang, He forgot about that bus... God does not play "gotcha" games in which He prevents any well-intentioned soul from being saved by taking their lives before they have the opportunity to be baptized. If God does allow a soul to die who has already formed an inner determination to seek baptism, that's not a surprise to God -- which is what "baptism by desire" is meant to convey. However, it does not cover a vague desire to get to know God someday, which is why we should not cease evangelizing just because we respect those who differ from ourselves in their understanding of God or religion. We are simply required by charity to treat the subject with greater levels of tact and sensitivity, to listen, ask good questions and demonstrate the truth of our faith through our lives.

Rather, we remind ourselves that we do not know how long our lives are so that we will not procrastinate ceaselessly on committing to a life in Christ in which we will be more responsible for our actions (as, say, St Augustine and Emperor Constantine both did) not so that we may undermine our faith in God's providence and essential goodness.

It would be wrong to steer someone to be baptized by a Protestant congregation because such a gesture would be an act of equivocacy -- in essence, a way of saying that there's no difference between the Roman Catholic Church and various other Christian Protestant denominations. You might not say so in as many words -- you could even make a speech saying the opposite. However, the fact that a practicing Catholic requested another person to essentially enter another church could be something that person might remember for the remainder of her life. It could become an excuse not to answer those nagging hints the Holy Spirit likes to drop in order to steer us in the right direction. And while it is *possible* for Protestants to be saved the Catholic Church does not certify that *most* practicing Roman Catholics will enter Heaven -- which is why we should still encourage others to enter into the barque (sailing ship) of Peter, otherwise known as the Holy Roman Catholic Church. After all, I wouldn't want someone I know and care about to have to explain on the Day of Judgement why my own poor choices led them to avoid the fullness of the faith and subsequently, to avoid fully knowing God.

[JenDeMaria]

[quote name='JenDeMaria' timestamp='1296081393' post='2204746']
I think there's a fuller answer to this question -- and it's important, because Evangelicals who convert are often confused as to why the Catholic church wants them to wait almost an entire year "to be saved".

However, numerous saints, including Padre Pio, have pointed out that we should have no reason to be anxious (about anything in life) if we will only remember the first article of the creed "I believe in God the father almighty, creator of heaven and earth."

-- snip--
[/quote]

I really did not mean to not capitolize "father almighty" by the way -- but I believe I'm too new to edit my post.

Mea Culpa! I'm typing too fast because I need to leave for Mass.

[Guest]

[quote name='JenDeMaria' timestamp='1296081393' post='2204746']
I think there's a fuller answer to this question -- and it's important, because Evangelicals who convert are often confused as to why the Catholic church wants them to wait almost an entire year "to be saved".

However, numerous saints, including Padre Pio, have pointed out that we should have no reason to be anxious (about anything in life) if we will only remember the first article of the creed "I believe in God the father almighty, creator of heaven and earth." You see, in that one word "almighty" all the other words that describe God, including descriptions such as all-knowing, all-present, purely good, etc, are contained. Our lives, then, are entirely within the hands of an all-good, all-knowing God who loves us and wills us only the best. We may have reasons for concern, then, but never anxiety.

God sees us from the inside out. He knows our intentions, without the distortions we humans experience as a result of Original Sin. He knows all our intentions from the past, our intentions in this moment and our intentions that we will form in the future. He knows our love for Him, our willingness to accept Him far better than we know it ourselves -- or our refusal to see Him and accept Him, due to our preference for temporal pleasures or simply our own ego. And God, who is all good, desires that all should be saved, though He allows some to be hardhearted enough to refuse salvation, freely choosing damnation instead.

God does not get distracted and forget you were going to be crossing the street at noon and, well, dang, He forgot about that bus... God does not play "gotcha" games in which He prevents any well-intentioned soul from being saved by taking their lives before they have the opportunity to be baptized. If God does allow a soul to die who has already formed an inner determination to seek baptism, that's not a surprise to God -- which is what "baptism by desire" is meant to convey. However, it does not cover a vague desire to get to know God someday, which is why we should not cease evangelizing just because we respect those who differ from ourselves in their understanding of God or religion. We are simply required by charity to treat the subject with greater levels of tact and sensitivity, to listen, ask good questions and demonstrate the truth of our faith through our lives.

Rather, we remind ourselves that we do not know how long our lives are so that we will not procrastinate ceaselessly on committing to a life in Christ in which we will be more responsible for our actions (as, say, St Augustine and Emperor Constantine both did) not so that we may undermine our faith in God's providence and essential goodness.

It would be wrong to steer someone to be baptized by a Protestant congregation because such a gesture would be an act of equivocacy -- in essence, a way of saying that there's no difference between the Roman Catholic Church and various other Christian Protestant denominations. You might not say so in as many words -- you could even make a speech saying the opposite. However, the fact that a practicing Catholic requested another person to essentially enter another church could be something that person might remember for the remainder of her life. It could become an excuse not to answer those nagging hints the Holy Spirit likes to drop in order to steer us in the right direction. And while it is *possible* for Protestants to be saved the Catholic Church does not certify that *most* practicing Roman Catholics will enter Heaven -- which is why we should still encourage others to enter into the barque (sailing ship) of Peter, otherwise known as the Holy Roman Catholic Church. After all, I wouldn't want someone I know and care about to have to explain on the Day of Judgement why my own poor choices led them to avoid the fullness of the faith and subsequently, to avoid fully knowing God.
[/quote]
Thanks for this I read every word and will probally read it several more times. I'm just gonna trust God and if she believes her baptism was valid when she was a kid then its up to God to know if that's the truth in her heart. I will keep sharing my catholic faith with her and try to show my love for God through my actions and less with my words. Its just tough because she sees the catholic church purely as religion just like how she sees the mormon church purely as religion. And she is not a fan of religion anymore because of the mormon church. So I guess I need to catachise (sp) her and I've learned a lot here so its worth a shot.

Edited January 26, 2011 by Guest

[thessalonian]

1256 The ordinary ministers of Baptism are the bishop and priest and, in the Latin Church, also the deacon. In case of necessity, anyone, even a non-baptized person, with the required intention, can baptize, by using the Trinitarian baptismal formula. The intention required is to will to do what the Church does when she baptizes. The Church finds the reason for this possibility in the universal saving will of God and the necessity of Baptism for salvation.

I would certainly say if they wanted to be baptized and you baptized them, pouring water over them and did it as the Church did it they would be baptized validly. Should you? That is a more difficult question. They don't believe all that the Church teaches but then the church does not say that the one being baptized has to have perfect theology to be baptized. They don't even have to have a proper understanding of baptism and that through it they receive the Holy Spirit. All they need is the intent to do what Christ's Church does. My leaning is certainly in the case of an emergency. I think otherwise, I would like to see your question asked in the Q & A section. Don't think it would be a sacralidge to do so.

[Guest]

[quote name='thessalonian' timestamp='1296103945' post='2204911']
1256 The ordinary ministers of Baptism are the bishop and priest and, in the Latin Church, also the deacon. In case of necessity, anyone, even a non-baptized person, with the required intention, can baptize, by using the Trinitarian baptismal formula. The intention required is to will to do what the Church does when she baptizes. The Church finds the reason for this possibility in the universal saving will of God and the necessity of Baptism for salvation.

I would certainly say if they wanted to be baptized and you baptized them, pouring water over them and did it as the Church did it they would be baptized validly. Should you? That is a more difficult question. They don't believe all that the Church teaches but then the church does not say that the one being baptized has to have perfect theology to be baptized. They don't even have to have a proper understanding of baptism and that through it they receive the Holy Spirit. All they need is the intent to do what Christ's Church does. My leaning is certainly in the case of an emergency. I think otherwise, I would like to see your question asked in the Q & A section. Don't think it would be a sacralidge to do so.
[/quote]
Thank you for your response brother. I appreciate it !

Edited January 27, 2011 by Guest

[dUSt]

Delivery Boy, when are we gonna meet?

[Guest]

[quote name='dUSt' timestamp='1296143443' post='2205052']
Delivery Boy, when are we gonna meet?
[/quote]
Tell me when brother. I live in henderson nevada 15 minutes from the strip in vegas.