Scrupulosity

[fides' Jack]

Well, after reading another thread, I thought this would be the way to get started on this topic. I couldn't post my concerns in the other thread because the user there seemed to have a real issue and I didn't want to make light of it.

I'm sure everyone here will disagree with me, but...

I think that the idea of "scruples" most people have is one that the devil plants in peoples' heads. Guilt is there for a reason. I'm sure I sin hundreds of times every day; does that make me "scrupulous"? In other people's eyes, maybe, but I think it just makes me realistic. After all, I deserve to suffer in hell for all eternity.

Another user pointed that that St. Alphonsus "suffered" from scruples. The way I see it, since he was a very holy man, and he lived his life in such a way as to merit the Church labeling him a saint even while he was "suffering from scruples," maybe the "scruples" that he had were actually a good thing. Another good example is St. Francis. The peace that he received from God was just that - a gift from God. Until that point he tore himself apart, and became a better man in the process. I don't think we should see our "scruples" as a block to overcome except by the literal grace of God. Maybe He wants us to feel that way about ourselves until that guilt drives us to better ourselves to the point that God thinks we don't need it anymore. He could certainly take it away at any time, if He wished.

At least for my own scruples, I really think they're beneficial, and not feelings that I need to try to "work through." Besides, the opposite of being scrupulous, which I see as not feeling guilty about anything, and having the mentality that "anything goes," is far, far worse and more dangerous to my salvation.

Edited January 24, 2011 by fides' Jack

[Lil Red]

i don't think you understand what scrupulousity truly is. being wracked with anxiety because you aren't sure if you performed your penance correctly, or if you truly did confess your past sins, or if you actually did sin, etc. etc.....that is scrupulousity. you are so totally fearful and full of anxiety that you become paralyzed in your spiritual life. it's not just 'feelings'....and attitudes like 'well, at least i am not saying anything goes and so it's better to worry over every little thing' - those are dangerous attitudes. if you have made a good confession, if you have received Communion in a state of grace, then you should not worry, you should trust in the Lord's grace and mercy.

if you think your scruples are beneficial - good for you. some of us have had to struggle mightily in being at peace.

[Lil Red]

and it's not something you just 'get over' because you want to. believe me, i would love to just 'get over' this. but it truly is a form of spiritual OCD....and would you tell someone suffering from OCD like compulsive hand-washing to just 'get over' it?

[Maximilianus]

A man is at a baseball ball game, enjoying his time when in the 6th inning some crazy woman streaks naked through the infield. He's initially stunned, then gets custody of his eyes until the situaltion is over. later he will have a laugh about it. A scrupulous person will freak out, and instantly cover his eyes, then spend the rest of the game agonizing whether or not he commited a grave sin by seeing the naked woman and fight internally over whether or not he needs to go to confession asap. He'll tell himself it wasn't his fault, she appeared out of nowhere but in his mind he will question his intent and wonder if he purposely looked at the woman. Or, you go to Mass and right before you get up to receive the Eucharist you lick your chapped lips and inadvertantly swallow a piece of skin..oh oh, you just broke the fast...no Communion for you?...this is scupulosity.

Now add that you feel and react this way 24/7 365 days a year and you have an issue that turns your life to heck.



[size="1"]edited because I can't type or spell, or both[/size]

Edited January 24, 2011 by Maximilianus

[Nihil Obstat]

Scrupulosity is sinful and you're going to burn in hell.



Lol, jk.
Srsly, jk. It's a heavy burden. Good luck and prayers for fighting the good fight.

[Maximilianus]

...

Edited January 24, 2011 by Maximilianus

[Chamomile]

[quote name='Maximilianus' timestamp='1295904605' post='2203918']
A man is at a baseball ball game, enjoying his time when in the 6th inning some crazy woman streaks naked through the infield. He's initially stunned, then gets custody of his eyes until the situaltion is over. later he will have a laugh about it. A scrupulous person will freak out, and instantly cover his eyes, then spend the rest of the game agonizing whether or not he commited a grave sin by seeing the naked woman and fight internally over whether or not he needs to go to confession asap. He'll tell himself it wasn't his fault, she appeared out of nowhere but in his mind he will question his intent and wonder if he purposely looked at the woman. Or, you go to Mass and right before you get up to receive the Eucharist you lick your chapped lips and inadvertantly swallow a piece of skin..oh oh, you just broke the fast...no Communion for you?...this is scupulosity.

Now add that you feel and react this way 24/7 365 days a year and you have an issue that turns your life to heck.



[size="1"]edited because I can't type or spell, or both[/size]
[/quote]



Good description. And don't worry - bad spelling/typing isn't a sin

True scruples are not a help to one's spiritual life. From what you describe Jack, that doesn't sound like scrupulosity. Scruples are definitely not the opposite to "not feeling guilty about anything, and having the mentality that 'anything goes.'" Not by a long shot... way more, like Red said, a type of spiritual OCD. God doesn't want us to feel that way - He wants us to be contrite, not scared to death and paralysis by His wrath and our failings.

The links that Sternhauser provided in the other topic are helpful for understanding what scruples are...

Pax et bonum!

[Maximilianus]

My edit time ran out...


From the [color="#000000"][font="Verdana"]Ten Commandments for the Scrupulous [/font]

[/color]

[font="Verdana"][size="2"][quote][font="Verdana"][size="2"]5. You shall not hesitate to look at any crucifix or at any statue in church or at home or anywhere else because you may get bad thoughts in your mind and imagination. If such thoughts occur, they carry no sin whatever.[/size][/font][/quote]

This is another thing, disturbing impulsive thoughts that somehow conveniently appeared during the best moments like during Mass.

Thanks be to God I survived that episode.

[/size][/font]

[ardillacid]

[quote name='Lil Red' timestamp='1295899728' post='2203877']
i don't think you understand what scrupulousity truly is. being wracked with anxiety because you aren't sure if you performed your penance correctly, or if you truly did confess your past sins, or if you actually did sin, etc. etc.....that is scrupulousity. you are so totally fearful and full of anxiety that you become paralyzed in your spiritual life. it's not just 'feelings'....and attitudes like 'well, at least i am not saying anything goes and so it's better to worry over every little thing' - those are dangerous attitudes. if you have made a good confession, if you have received Communion in a state of grace, then you should not worry, you should trust in the Lord's grace and mercy.

if you think your scruples are beneficial - good for you. some of us have had to struggle mightily in being at peace.
[/quote]


[quote name='Maximilianus' timestamp='1295904605' post='2203918']
A man is at a baseball ball game, enjoying his time when in the 6th inning some crazy woman streaks naked through the infield. He's initially stunned, then gets custody of his eyes until the situaltion is over. later he will have a laugh about it. A scrupulous person will freak out, and instantly cover his eyes, then spend the rest of the game agonizing whether or not he commited a grave sin by seeing the naked woman and fight internally over whether or not he needs to go to confession asap. He'll tell himself it wasn't his fault, she appeared out of nowhere but in his mind he will question his intent and wonder if he purposely looked at the woman. Or, you go to Mass and right before you get up to receive the Eucharist you lick your chapped lips and inadvertantly swallow a piece of skin..oh oh, you just broke the fast...no Communion for you?...this is scupulosity.

Now add that you feel and react this way 24/7 365 days a year and you have an issue that turns your life to heck.



[size="1"]edited because I can't type or spell, or both[/size]
[/quote]
concurrence

[fides' Jack]

Thanks for the kind replies, all.

Hmm... Maybe I don't really understand it, then.

edit: tmi

Edited January 24, 2011 by fides' Jack

[fides quarens intellectum]

For what it is worth, I think there must be differing views out there as to just exactly what scrupulosity can be.

I've been told I was being overly scrupulous twice in confession. Once was when I said I had been to confession within the last several months, and the other was when I happened to not have had any mortal sins to confess that particular time around (all glory to God). Mind you, I'm not even one of those people who can successfully give the number of times I have done a particular sin like the little confession guides say you're supposed to.

So, to be fair, I think even those who have the care of our souls in confession may not necessarily agree to what scrupulosity is.

If it is the overpowering kind that takes complete and constant control of a person's thoughts like some people on PM have described, then I'd agree with others who've suggested spiritual direction and/or counseling in the other thread.

If it is simply going to confession without a mortal sin on one's conscience or going more than once or twice a year, well, I'm not yet convinced that's necessarily a bad thing. I mean, think of people like Blessed Mother Teresa and soon-to-be-Blessed Pope John Paul II who both went to confession daily, or think of the Missionaries of Charity - I once heard a priest say that hearing confession from them is like getting stoned to death by marshmallows because they confess to things like not loving one's neighbor enough. He was like, who does?!

Anyway, I suppose, in the end, it all comes down to balance. Guess that's why we should have spiritual directors!

[Chamomile]

[quote name='fides quarens intellectum' timestamp='1295912715' post='2203981']
I've been told I was being overly scrupulous twice in confession. Once was when I said I had been to confession within the last several months, and the other was when I happened to not have had any mortal sins to confess that particular time around (all glory to God).
[/quote]





That's definitely not scrupulous!

I just read that Padre Pio advised his spiritual children to go to Confession every 10 days. And many holy people, including Popes, have recommended frequent Confession.

When I talked to a good priest about this issue during Confession - feeling like I should go often but not having serious sins to confess that I know of - he said that that's a good thing, since it can be like a devotion or discipline. And the grace God gives us through that Sacrament is amazing!

Keep going to Confession on a regular basis - as one person put it, not going regularly is like allowing junk to pile up in your car slowly and slowly until there are just mountains of trash in there. But if you go get your car all clean, you're really careful about what you keep in it. Such is one's soul after Confession. I didn't do justice to that analogy, but... it's good to have your soul cleansed by God's grace often

[fides quarens intellectum]

[quote name='Chamomile' timestamp='1295915419' post='2204004']


That's definitely not scrupulous!

I just read that Padre Pio advised his spiritual children to go to Confession every 10 days. And many holy people, including Popes, have recommended frequent Confession.

When I talked to a good priest about this issue during Confession - feeling like I should go often but not having serious sins to confess that I know of - he said that that's a good thing, since it can be like a devotion or discipline. And the grace God gives us through that Sacrament is amazing!

Keep going to Confession on a regular basis - as one person put it, not going regularly is like allowing junk to pile up in your car slowly and slowly until there are just mountains of trash in there. But if you go get your car all clean, you're really careful about what you keep in it. Such is one's soul after Confession. I didn't do justice to that analogy, but... it's good to have your soul cleansed by God's grace often
[/quote]

oh, i agree with you on the benefits of frequent confession. i'm just saying confessors don't always see it that way and some consider it to be scrupulous.

[Chamomile]

[quote name='fides quarens intellectum' timestamp='1295916891' post='2204012']
oh, i agree with you on the benefits of frequent confession. i'm just saying confessors don't always see it that way and some consider it to be scrupulous.
[/quote]



Oh, OK. I had an experience like that one time... I try to pray for that priest often, not specifically for that issue, but it definitely encouraged me to do so.

[fides quarens intellectum]

[quote name='Chamomile' timestamp='1295917233' post='2204014']
Oh, OK. I had an experience like that one time... I try to pray for that priest often, not specifically for that issue, but it definitely encouraged me to do so.
[/quote]

excellent reminder!! i should pray for all priests much more often than i do.

thanks!