Enneagram In Religious Life

[Santa Cruz]

Greetings,

Recently I spent time at a monastery and during my stay, there were 2 weekend long workshops on the enneagram. The major superior required attendance at some of the talks for the entire community and persons in formation and or working on formation were required to attend all of the talks.

It is my understanding that the NCCB issued a draft letter back in 2000 for the purpose of warning Bishops that the enneagram is not in accord with Catholic Teaching and neither is it sound scientific practice. My spiritual director has told me the enneagram is demonic. I agree.

I have 2 questions:

1. Does anyone know if a final letter was ever prepared by the NCCB?

2. Quite frankly, it freaks me out that so called "traditional" religious communities are using the enneagram. In other people's experience are many religious communities using and teaching the practice of the enneagram?

Thank you!

[Cherie]

Had to do this quick ... here is an article on it, I can't find the actual Bishop's document, but I will try!

http://www.catholicculture.org/culture/library/view.cfm?recnum=3341

Yeah, enneagrams are a no-no. I can't imagine an orthodox religious community [i]would[/i] have talks on them, unless the talks were about the [i]dangers[/i] of them.

I will try for more later!

[Santa Cruz]

Thank you Cherie Madame for the link.

The workshops were given by another religious sister from a local University. The purpose of the workshops was to introduce the community to the enneagram and to help each sister to discover her own number on the enneagram. It closed with persons sharing their number with the community and then groups were formed based upon the numbers so that sisters with the same number could get together and share (this part was optional). There was also a table of books put out for the community to look at for the purpose of discovering one's number and to start on the path to wherever this number leads you.

This community/order is presented as orthodox and sadly, people enter not aware of the subtle twists and turns that are very much out of line with the Magisterium.

[Santa Cruz]

Thank you Cherie Madame for the link.

The workshops were given by another religious sister from a local University. The purpose of the workshops was to introduce the community to the enneagram and to help each sister to discover her own number on the enneagram. It closed with persons sharing their number with the community and then groups were formed based upon the numbers so that sisters with the same number could get together and share (this part was optional). There was also a table of books put out for the community to look at for the purpose of discovering one's number and to start on the path to wherever this number leads you.

This community/order is presented as orthodox and sadly, people enter not aware of the subtle twists and turns that are very much out of line with the Magisterium.

[Chamomile]

Could you tell us what community that is? I think women who might be discerning need to know. Subtle twists/turns sounds like something that we should encourage people to avoid as some might miss the warning signs.

[Santa Cruz]

Chamomile,

It is something I struggle with, concern for others who both are there in formation and who may enter. However, I do not feel comfortable posting their name here, because of slander. At least to me, it seems that would be slanderous. The community is not listed on the phatmass vocations page. However, in researching posts from the past, they have been recommended at least once that I found but it was in the context of communities that accept "belated" vocations. That was a couple of years ago.

If someone posts specifically asking about that community or the order, I will surely let her know of my experience. I think the confusion lies in that they wear a full habit and they are cloistered. They also truly live poverty, their liturgy is heavenly and with latin plus their horarium is gorgeous. BUT...

If you PM me I would be happy to share their name, so that you can pray for them.

[cruciatacara]

It sounds as if this disease has crept into a few communities, even the so called trad ones. I have also heard of at least one other cloistered community that uses them, and a priest who says he uses them too. And in fact, there are some so-called Catholic spiritual directors (some of them registered psychologists as well) who promote the enneagram on their websites, despite the Vatican's warnings about it. I don't know if they are just ignoring the warning or consciously going against it - but I see danger signs if even trad orders are using this kind of thing.

[Chamomile]

[quote name='Santa Cruz' timestamp='1295756455' post='2203275']
Chamomile,

It is something I struggle with, concern for others who both are there in formation and who may enter. However, I do not feel comfortable posting their name here, because of slander. At least to me, it seems that would be slanderous. The community is not listed on the phatmass vocations page. However, in researching posts from the past, they have been recommended at least once that I found but it was in the context of communities that accept "belated" vocations. That was a couple of years ago.

If someone posts specifically asking about that community or the order, I will surely let her know of my experience. I think the confusion lies in that they wear a full habit and they are cloistered. They also truly live poverty, their liturgy is heavenly and with latin plus their horarium is gorgeous. BUT...

If you PM me I would be happy to share their name, so that you can pray for them.
[/quote]



Definitely understandable why you wouldn't reveal that info in a public forum, but I would still like to know. Sounds like a community I would consider, too... I don't think you can receive PMs until you get 10 posts (I tried to send you one and it wouldn't let me!). You can send me an e-mail through my profile, but I don't know if I'll be able to respond to you that way or not.... ?

Do you think a letter to the bishop would be appropriate? Or if they're a pontifical-rite community, one to the Vatican? It's pretty serious when New Age stuff creeps into the Church, as it can be very damaging

Thanks & God bless!

[jegudiel]

I was reading a column by a nun, on a news site, and I thought the column was pretty good- until she talked about taking time to study the Enneagram. I was so worried for her. I hope she made a different decision.

[MithLuin]

Stupid question...how is this different from Myers Briggs or any other way of grouping people based on rough categories of personalities? Meaning...I can't think of too many organizations that [i]don't[/i] try to promote understanding of different types of people within the group, and pick some tool to classify people to aid in this. Even something as basic as True Colors (green, gold, blue, orange) can be used for that type of discussion. How is enneagram different?

[Cherie]

[quote name='MithLuin' timestamp='1295813918' post='2203494']
Stupid question...how is this different from Myers Briggs or any other way of grouping people based on rough categories of personalities? Meaning...I can't think of too many organizations that [i]don't[/i] try to promote understanding of different types of people within the group, and pick some tool to classify people to aid in this. Even something as basic as True Colors (green, gold, blue, orange) can be used for that type of discussion. How is enneagram different?
[/quote]

The article I posted explains a lot of that. For example, "Unfortunately, at least in the enneagram literature that has been published so far, distortions of Christian belief are common, even in the books that are most popular among Catholics and that are sometimes written by members of religious orders."

Also:

[quote]"For example, in enneagram teaching sin is often redefined in terms of the characteristic limitations of a particular personality type. . . Since every personality type has its intrinsic limitations, sin becomes something at least in part inevitable. Personal responsibility for sin becomes very difficult to explain in this theory. A second problem is a consequence of the first.

"If sin is the (inevitable) result of one personality type, then the solution to sin is to be found primarily in compensating for one personality type by following the prescriptions of enneagram teaching. The remedy for sin becomes first of all a matter of greater knowledge rather than reform of the will. According to Christian teaching, sin is indeed unhealthy behavior and can be combated by an improved understanding, but it is at its root a moral problem, so that repentance before God and one's neighbor must be the fundamental response. Enneagram teaching thus obscures the Christian understanding of sin" [/quote]

[vee]

Fr Mitch Pacwa has a lot to say about it, some of which can be found in the following article
http://www.ourladyswarriors.org/dissent/enneagram.htm

to quote
Father Pacwa says:

[indent] [size="2"]"[i]I have two criticisms [of Enneagram]. First, it's theological nonsense, suffused with[/i][/size] Gnostic
[size="2"][i] ideas. For instance, the nine points of the Enneagram are called the "nine faces of God," which become nine demons turned upside down. No one should speak that way. . . . And the way the Enneagram is taught is Pelagian -- self-salvation through a man-made technique, not by God's grace.[/i]"[/size]

[size="2"]"[i]Secondly, this is a psychological system that hasn't been tested by professional psychologists. We have no independent evidence that it's true. As a result, Enneagram experts -- who aren't necessarily aware of the occult aspects -- are making up descriptions as they go along. It's irresponsible to pass this off as true.[/i]"[/size]

[/indent]

[Chamomile]

[quote name='vee8' timestamp='1295814895' post='2203509']
Fr Mitch Pacwa has a lot to say about it, some of which can be found in the following article
[url="http://www.ourladyswarriors.org/dissent/enneagram.htm"]http://www.ourladysw...t/enneagram.htm[/url]

to quote
Father Pacwa says:

[indent] [size="2"]"[i]I have two criticisms [of Enneagram]. First, it's theological nonsense, suffused with[/i][/size] Gnostic
[size="2"][i] ideas. For instance, the nine points of the Enneagram are called the "nine faces of God," which become nine demons turned upside down. No one should speak that way. . . . And the way the Enneagram is taught is Pelagian -- self-salvation through a man-made technique, not by God's grace.[/i]"[/size]

[size="2"]"[i]Secondly, this is a psychological system that hasn't been tested by professional psychologists. We have no independent evidence that it's true. As a result, Enneagram experts -- who aren't necessarily aware of the occult aspects -- are making up descriptions as they go along. It's irresponsible to pass this off as true.[/i]"[/size]

[/indent]
[/quote]



[img]http://www.phatmass.com/phorum/public/style_emoticons/default/clap2.gif[/img]

Fr. Pacwa FTW.

[Santa Cruz]

[quote name='MithLuin' timestamp='1295813918' post='2203494']
Stupid question...how is this different from Myers Briggs or any other way of grouping people based on rough categories of personalities? Meaning...I can't think of too many organizations that [i]don't[/i] try to promote understanding of different types of people within the group, and pick some tool to classify people to aid in this. Even something as basic as True Colors (green, gold, blue, orange) can be used for that type of discussion. How is enneagram different?
[/quote]



MithLuin,

Not a stupid question, I think you raise a good point.

Below is pasted an excerpt from an article in, "Catholic Culture" [url="http://www.catholicculture.org/culture/library/view.cfm?recnum=3341"]http://www.catholicc...cfm?recnum=3341[/url]

[b]NCCB Preparing Cautionary Note on Use of Enneagram [/b]

"The NCCB's belated recognition that the enneagram is a threat to sound Catholic spiritual formation opens up the possibility that the American bishops will have to undertake a similar, if not harder, and more comprehensive, examination of the vast influence of Carl Jung in supposedly Catholic spirituality programs.

As a Canadian Anglican, the Rev. Ed Hird, past national chairman of Anglican Renewal Ministries in Canada, wrote in March 1998, Jung, the enneagram, and the Myers-Briggs personality test -- which almost all dioceses use to evaluate potential seminarians and "pastoral leaders" -- are all connected, the latter two intimately connected to Jung's work to deconstruct traditional Christianity."

[Santa Cruz]

Well, I have learned the hard way that it is important to ask vocation directors whether the enneagram is used within the community. If it is, I will surely run the other way. From my experience, it is bad stuff, poison to a community of Christians.