MarkKurallSchuenemann Posted January 17, 2011 Share Posted January 17, 2011 [quote name='Archaeology cat' timestamp='1295263674' post='2200973'] As I've mentioned before, I don't think this means to let another persist in error, or to keep from teaching another the full Truth. As we see in Acts, when Aquila & Priscilla take aside Apollos to teach him the full Truth, we do not treat those who don't have the full Truth as enemies, but neither do we let them persist without knowing the full Truth. Aquila & Priscilla didn't stop Apollos from preaching (as the Apostles were questioning stopping another from working miracles, only to have Jesus tell them not to stop him), but they take him aside and instruct him. Since Paul mentions Apollos then instructing and baptising others, we can see that he was in full communion with the Church after this point. God bless [/quote] First, I wasn't really commenting on whether or not you should do that. I respect your decisions on the spiritual path you have chosen, and any person who loves Christ and people will do their best to show people if they are in error in their eyes. That comes from the caring part. But KoC shows no charity whatsoever, and Cam, for all of his logic and his well educated thoughts, also shows a lot of arrogance. These are sins, as God says he hates evil, and pride is one of those things he hates. Look at their posts, and read how 'right they are', and how 'stupid and vile' I am because I don't agree with them. Great fruits for a believer! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Archaeology cat Posted January 17, 2011 Share Posted January 17, 2011 (edited) [quote name='MarkKurallSchuenemann' timestamp='1295272962' post='2200982'] First, I wasn't really commenting on whether or not you should do that. I respect your decisions on the spiritual path you have chosen, and any person who loves Christ and people will do their best to show people if they are in error in their eyes. That comes from the caring part. But KoC shows no charity whatsoever, and Cam, for all of his logic and his well educated thoughts, also shows a lot of arrogance. These are sins, as God says he hates evil, and pride is one of those things he hates. Look at their posts, and read how 'right they are', and how 'stupid and vile' I am because I don't agree with them. Great fruits for a believer! [/quote] Unfortunately it can be difficult to get the proper tone across in writing. I know I'm often guilty of this, and sometimes come across sounding harsher than I intend. KoC and I haven't always agreed in the past, because there were times I thought he came across too strong, but I know him a little better now. That being said, I do not see Cam and him saying that you are "stupid and vile" (if I've missed that, please forgive me). I would not say that they necessarily lack charity, for true charity does not gloss over error, but corrects because of love, and I know how much KoC and Cam love the Church Jesus has given us. It is not loving to allow another to persist in heresy without providing correction. Because of our beliefs that only the Church has the fullness of truth, charity requires that we teach this to others, as Jesus commands in the Great Commission. God bless Edited January 17, 2011 by Archaeology cat Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Socrates Posted January 17, 2011 Share Posted January 17, 2011 [quote name='Cam42' timestamp='1295236044' post='2200903'] Those are Jesus' words...so by your logic, it is Jesus who's using the scare tactics.... And you still haven't addressed the validity of your interpretation...how can I trust your interpretation over that of 2000 years of consistent teaching? [/quote] Get with it, Cam! Everyone knows we're only to pay attention to the words of Christ when we deem them acceptably meek and mild, politically correct, ecumenical, and non-judgmental. Everything else He said is outdated and irrelevant. Didn't you get the memo? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Socrates Posted January 17, 2011 Share Posted January 17, 2011 [quote name='MarkKurallSchuenemann' timestamp='1295272962' post='2200982'] But KoC shows no charity whatsoever, and Cam, for all of his logic and his well educated thoughts, also shows a lot of arrogance. These are sins, as God says he hates evil, and pride is one of those things he hates. [/quote] I thought you said in the "Elton John" thread that you were against judging others' behavior. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ed Normile Posted January 17, 2011 Share Posted January 17, 2011 The scripture that MKS attributes to proof of Christs words denouncing KoC's stance, am I missing something or are they the words of the apostles, distraught about a man who was casting out demons and not following them, this man not rejecting Christ nor was that man rejecting or denouncing the Apostles authority, and definetly not rejecting the authority His Church, so I can not see how this is relevant to the topic. If the Apostles would have said, Jesus he said we were not valid Apostles, or he said your Church or her representatives are the instrument of the devil spreading lies and false practises,and then Jesus replied as He did , that would be a different story. One thing though, judging by the posted quote of MKS that started this thread, MKS is sure proud of his works. ed Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark of the Cross Posted January 17, 2011 Share Posted January 17, 2011 (edited) [quote name='Socrates' timestamp='1295287677' post='2201033'] Get with it, Cam! Everyone knows we're only to pay attention to the words of Christ when we deem them acceptably meek and mild, politically correct, ecumenical, and non-judgmental. Everything else He said is outdated and irrelevant. Didn't you get the memo? [/quote] The true path is somewhere between your left eye and your right eye, socs! Keep them [b]both open[/b] or you will veer off the path. This [quote name='Archaeology cat' timestamp='1295274090' post='2200987'] , for true charity does not gloss over error, but corrects [b]because of love[/b], and I know how much KoC and Cam love the Church Jesus has given us. It is not loving to allow another to persist in heresy without providing correction. Because of our beliefs that only the Church has the fullness of truth, charity requires that we teach this to others, as Jesus commands in the Great Commission. God bless [/quote] Yes I'm sure KFC, Cam and Soc do this, it just doesn't always come across that they are doing it with love. Edited January 17, 2011 by Mark of the Cross Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cam42 Posted January 18, 2011 Author Share Posted January 18, 2011 [quote name='Mark of the Cross' timestamp='1295294630' post='2201074'] Yes I'm sure KFC, Cam and Soc do this, it just doesn't always come across that they are doing it with love. [/quote] I write in a straightforward style. If you would like to know how I inflect with speech, there are several videos of me having a conversation with a priest in the SkeWWW it on the BBQ. That is how I speak to everyone... I will not change my writing style, which cannot convey proper emotion and I don't pretend, nor have I ever pretended that it does. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarkKurallSchuenemann Posted January 18, 2011 Share Posted January 18, 2011 (edited) [quote name='Ed Normile' timestamp='1295288703' post='2201047'] distraught about a man who was casting out demons and not following them, [/quote] Exactly what you are doing right now. You want me to follow what you follow, and are practically saying, you shouldn't unless your a Catholic. [quote name='Ed Normile' timestamp='1295288703' post='2201047'] this man not rejecting Christ nor was that man rejecting or denouncing the Apostles authority, and definetly not rejecting the authority His Church, so I can not see how this is relevant to the topic. [/quote] And neither am I. Therefore, if I am just like the man that the Apostles were distraught about, who tried to prevent him from following Christ that man's way, not their way, then Christ would say what I do isn't vile to KoC, because I am for Christ and for all of you. These scriptures were put in the Bible, purposefully - because God knew there would be a protestant reformation - and to say to all of his people in all different religions devoted to his son - don't be distraught enough to prevent everybody from following my son in any way they decide to do so! Edited January 18, 2011 by MarkKurallSchuenemann Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother Adam Posted January 18, 2011 Share Posted January 18, 2011 [quote name='MarkKurallSchuenemann' timestamp='1295242930' post='2200941'] A wicked generation seeks signs and explanations. I am going to give you a choice on where my authority is coming from : You can choose to say that my authority comes from the holy spirit, and say, well mine comes from the holy spirit as well, so which one of us is right and which one of us is wrong. Or you can choose to say my authority comes only from myself, and then you can say, well mine comes from the holy spirit, so you are wrong because sacred tradition says you are wrong, and you can shake the dust off your shoes like you did. [/quote] You still are not addressing Cam42's question, and if that means you simply do not have an answer, that is fine, but own up to it. No one is going to think less of you for doing so. If it makes it easier to simplify his question we can do that - Baptists believe that the Lord's Supper is symbolic only and justify their belief using John 6 (etc). Catholics believe that the Lord's Supper is sacramental and He is truly present in the Eucharist and justify their belief using John 6 (etc). Various denominations all believe different things about Communion, all of them use scripture to justify their beliefs. Clearly this many supposedly right interpretations is contrary to God's will, isn't it? Who is right? If they are both right or if you cannot know which one is right, then is God the author of confusion? If one is wrong, by what authority do you declare one or the other wrong. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarkKurallSchuenemann Posted January 18, 2011 Share Posted January 18, 2011 [quote name='Brother Adam' timestamp='1295314868' post='2201186'] You still are not addressing Cam42's question, and if that means you simply do not have an answer, that is fine, but own up to it. No one is going to think less of you for doing so. If it makes it easier to simplify his question we can do that - Baptists believe that the Lord's Supper is symbolic only and justify their belief using John 6 (etc). Catholics believe that the Lord's Supper is sacramental and He is truly present in the Eucharist and justify their belief using John 6 (etc). Various denominations all believe different things about Communion, all of them use scripture to justify their beliefs. Clearly this many supposedly right interpretations is contrary to God's will, isn't it? Who is right? If they are both right or if you cannot know which one is right, then is God the author of confusion? If one is wrong, by what authority do you declare one or the other wrong. [/quote] I'm not talking about those doctrines. What I am saying is that God made sure certain scriptures were put in place to say, no person who worships his son, who trusts his son, and performs miracles in his son's name is any different than any other person who worships his son, who trusts his son, and performs miracles in his son's name - because he knew there would be this kind of confusion towards the end. I'll be honest with you, when the Anti-Christ comes to attack all followers of Christ because he denies the God of his father, do you think he will care if one of us in Baptist, and another one is Catholic, or another is a bible-based relationship person? He will not see the difference either - because he is purely evil. Everybody here is basically doing this , and it isn't because of me, it is because none of you can wrap your spirits around that fact God said, there will be division in paths, but if they are all about his son, that's okay - don't get too caught up in that, they are for his son, and for all of you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cam42 Posted January 18, 2011 Author Share Posted January 18, 2011 [quote name='MarkKurallSchuenemann' timestamp='1295315287' post='2201190'] I'm not talking about those doctrines. What I am saying is that God made sure certain scriptures were put in place to say, no person who worships his son, who trusts his son, and performs miracles in his son's name is any different than any other person who worships his son, who trusts his son, and performs miracles in his son's name - because he knew there would be this kind of confusion towards the end. I'll be honest with you, when the Anti-Christ comes to attack all followers of Christ because he denies the God of his father, do you think he will care if one of us in Baptist, and another one is Catholic, or another is a bible-based relationship person? He will not see the difference either - because he is purely evil. Everybody here is basically doing this , and it isn't because of me, it is because none of you can wrap your spirits around that fact God said, there will be division in paths, but if they are all about his son, that's okay - don't get too caught up in that, they are for his son, and for all of you. [/quote] But how do you know with any objective certainty? On who's authority do you know the mind of God? You say that God made sure that certain scriptures were put in place...how do you know that? Actually, you are the wall, because you refuse to answer a really simple question.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark of the Cross Posted January 18, 2011 Share Posted January 18, 2011 [quote name='Cam42' timestamp='1295310733' post='2201172'] I write in a straightforward style. If you would like to know how I inflect with speech, there are several videos of me having a conversation with a priest in the SkeWWW it on the BBQ. That is how I speak to everyone... I will not change my writing style, which cannot convey proper emotion and I don't pretend, nor have I ever pretended that it does. [/quote] Actually I made a little booboo there, Arch Cat mentioned the three names and I responded to that when I should have only responded to the names of KOC and Soc since I have been in discussions with them on numerous occasions. I should not have mentioned your name as I do not really know you that well. My apologies Sir. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Archaeology cat Posted January 18, 2011 Share Posted January 18, 2011 (edited) [quote name='MarkKurallSchuenemann' timestamp='1295315287' post='2201190'] I'm not talking about those doctrines. What I am saying is that God made sure certain scriptures were put in place to say, no person who worships his son, who trusts his son, and performs miracles in his son's name is any different than any other person who worships his son, who trusts his son, and performs miracles in his son's name - because he knew there would be this kind of confusion towards the end. I'll be honest with you, when the Anti-Christ comes to attack all followers of Christ because he denies the God of his father, do you think he will care if one of us in Baptist, and another one is Catholic, or another is a bible-based relationship person? He will not see the difference either - because he is purely evil. Everybody here is basically doing this , and it isn't because of me, it is because none of you can wrap your spirits around that fact God said, there will be division in paths, but if they are all about his son, that's okay - don't get too caught up in that, they are for his son, and for all of you. [/quote] You're still not addressing the example of Aquila & Priscilla taking aside Apollos and instructing him (unless I've missed your response to that. If so, I apologise). That example is somewhat akin to a Catholic telling a Methodist "look, you have great faith, but you're missing part of the picture, so let me help you". There's also Jesus' prayer that we may be one, as He & the Father are one. God bless Edited January 18, 2011 by Archaeology cat Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cam42 Posted January 18, 2011 Author Share Posted January 18, 2011 [quote name='Mark of the Cross' timestamp='1295333033' post='2201336'] Actually I made a little booboo there, Arch Cat mentioned the three names and I responded to that when I should have only responded to the names of KOC and Soc since I have been in discussions with them on numerous occasions. I should not have mentioned your name as I do not really know you that well. My apologies Sir. [/quote] Accepted...thank you.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarkKurallSchuenemann Posted January 19, 2011 Share Posted January 19, 2011 (edited) [quote name='Archaeology cat' timestamp='1295350898' post='2201354'] You're still not addressing the example of Aquila & Priscilla taking aside Apollos and instructing him (unless I've missed your response to that. If so, I apologise). [/quote] The thing about the part of the Bible dealing with Apollos is that Apollos didn't know Jesus, and he was working under John's teachings. Certainly, if I didn't know Christ, you should teach me about him, because if I am feverant about God, but I didn't know about Jesus (Like some Jews and Muslims are) - and you feel moved to teach them, then you should. But I already know about Christ, and I trust Christ - so I am not like Apollos, as I also teach about Christ, as you teach about Christ - do you see where I can use the scriptures I use and say - hey - if you trust Jesus, and you trust Jesus - it doesn't matter if we are part of the apostles group - because if they are for Jesus, than they will be for Jesus and each other. [quote name='Archaeology cat' timestamp='1295350898' post='2201354'] That example is somewhat akin to a Catholic telling a Methodist "look, you have great faith, but you're missing part of the picture, so let me help you". There's also Jesus' prayer that we may be one, as He & the Father are one. God bless [/quote] I kinda explained my POV about that above - it should never be about a Catholic and Methodist, but a Catholic/Christian and a Muslim or Jew, or another person who wants to know about Jesus! Now, imagine if Catholics, and Methodists, and Baptists, or any other Christ believing people just stopped fighting each other, and said - hey - we are essentially the same, and these doctrinal issues are just like the laws of our countries, they're always going to be different ideas and POVs on these ideas - but that's cool because it gets us sharing the word of God with each other, and talking about it (just like on this message board) - and we all are blessed from each other's insights! Wouldn't that be an amazing body of Christ? After all God created a world where sharks don't have the same function that trees have, which also doesn't have the same function as butter flies, which doesn't have the same function as human beings, but all work in concert to make one amazing world! Edited January 19, 2011 by MarkKurallSchuenemann Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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