Holding Hands During Our Father At Mass

[Winchester]

[quote name='Lilllabettt' timestamp='1295141570' post='2200554']
Doing something with your hands during a prayer is not "adding" something. We have hands, something must be done with them when we are not using them.
[/quote]
[media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QqhkdHlCHLk[/media]

[Maggyie]

Good point, Lilla... folding your hands is not mentioned in the rubrics, so I guess that is "adding to the Mass" too? Hand missals are not mentioned in the rubrics either... another "addition." One thing that American Catholics struggle with is: [i]Just because it is not explicitly permitted, does not mean that it is proscribed. Just because it is not explicitly forbidden, does not mean that it is allowed. [/i] Most other cultures where the Church is active (including European) have a much healthier and realistic approach to this kind of thing.

The Prefect in charge of liturgy really, really, really does not need or want to get any reports from cranky Catholics about all the people holding hands during the Our Father. There are bigger fish to fry both liturgically and in the Church as a whole.

[Winchester]

Not fish. [i]Fruitcakes[/i]

[Ed Normile]

I travel and visit many different parishes to make mass, I have seen the in your face types who thrust their hand into your hand and then get visibly perturbed when you do not hold it, or the types who shake their hands at you several times as if you are partially blind and can not see their hand. I have been to parishes where the whole place from front to back holds hands, in one instance the priest left the altar to join in the "love circle" my term, its embarrassing but I know better and refuse to join in so the ones on either side usually just hold their hand out in the air as if i were joining in but I did have one time where they reached across my stomach to bypass my abscence in the circle. I have discussed this with priests and even my family, one family member said " I do not think God will send me to hell over this" The first time I seen this was back in the 80's when the charismatic movement was infiltrating the church, and then it seemed to wane until its re-emergence in the 90's. I look at it as another way for the master of lies to mislead the faithful and lead them astray. And as far as what we do with our hands, tradition holds that Jesus folded his hands in prayer, thats good enough for me.

ed

[Ed Normile]

[quote name='Micah' timestamp='1295139916' post='2200539']
People in this thread are mixing up the sign of peace and the holding hands during "Our Father.." [img]http://www.phatmass.com/phorum/public/style_emoticons/default/saint.gif[/img]
[/quote]


Actually both are additions to the mass.

ed

[Ed Normile]

[quote name='Cam42' timestamp='1295122326' post='2200446']
In that instance, you would have been more correct to say, Pax Domini sit semper vobiscum. Rather than dominus vobiscum. You weren't calling for one to enter into prayer. The latter is a specific call to prayer. The Pax Domini is more appropriate....

I'm a bit of a Latinist, 10 years of the stuff will do that to ya.....sorry....
[/quote]


Pax Christi is a good one meaning peace of Christ, I thought pax Dei meaning peace of God was another good one, and i think Pax Domine means peace, lord or the form master, used as a greeting.

ed

[IcePrincessKRS]

http://www.catholicculture.org/culture/library/view.cfm?id=1175&CFID=65259211&CFTOKEN=43270993

[quote]Can a congregation hold hands anyway, even if it is extraneous? While no one can find fault if a husband and wife, or a family want spontaneously to hold hands during the Lord's Prayer, the priest does not have the right to introduce, mandate, or impose it. The Code of Canon Law (1983) does mandate: "The liturgical books approved by the competent authority are to be faithfully observed in the celebration of the sacraments; therefore, no one on personal authority may add, remove, or change anything in them" (Canon 826.1). (Note that this Canon repeated a previous mandate found in both Vatican II's Constitution on the Sacred Liturgy (1963) and the Instruction on the Worship of the Eucharistic Mystery, No. 45 (1967), which was issued to address certain abuses arising in the liturgy after the council.) Therefore, a priest who introduces, mandates, or imposes the holding of hands during the Lord's Prayer is violating the norms set by the Church. [/quote]

http://www.catholic.com/thisrock/1999/9903qq.asp

[quote]Fortunately, the recent Instruction on Collaboration (Nov. 13, 1997) drew the line on this issue and specifically mandated that "Neither may . . . non-ordained members of the faithful use gestures or actions which are proper to the . . . priest celebrant" (ICP, Practical Provisions 6 §2).

The reference to gestures that are appropriate to the priest celebrating the Mass certainly includes praying with arms outstretched, which is probably the single most frequent gesture the rubrics direct him to make during Mass and which is clearly tied to the office of priest in the Church’s liturgical documents.

Consequently, in the liturgy, laity should not be praying with hands outstretched. [/quote]

[Papist]

I chose to hold hands during the Our Father. My own.

[Micah]

[quote name='Papist' timestamp='1295144187' post='2200581']
I chose to hold hands during the Our Father. My own.
[/quote]

Zing

[Winchester]

Pax made the Reavers.

[Cam42]

[quote name='Tab'le Du'Bah-Rye' timestamp='1295140113' post='2200543']
Can you please give the meaning of that greeting for us all in english, that if we choose to learn it and use it we know the meaning.
[/quote]


V. Pax Domini sit semper vobiscum
May the Peace of the Lord be with you always.

R. Et cum spiritu tuo
And with your spirit

[Cam42]

[quote name='Lilllabettt' timestamp='1295141570' post='2200554']
Doing something with your hands during a prayer is not "adding" something. We have hands, something must be done with them when we are not using them. Folding hands church-steeple style is not mentioned ... when people do that it is not an "addition" either. As far as I know the rubrics never indicate what the laity are supposed to do with their hands. But clearly they've got to do something with them, right?

The truth is the Church does not care what we do with our hands when we pray ... within the bounds of normal common sense. (In other words, don't pray with your hands in the Texas longhorn salute.) We are supposed to use our common sense, not require a rule for every last thing. We are grown ups, not babies.
[/quote]

It can be adding something Lillabettt. Folding hands is an acceptable practice. Engaging in the orans position during the Our Father is not, neither is holding hands with your neighbor. Not because you are doing something individually, as in folding your hands, but rather because you are entering into a communal aspect, which is guarded by the rubrics of the Mass.

Again, the rubrics apply to the faithful as much as they do for the ministers. In this instance Lillabettt, you're incorrect.

[Sternhauser]

[quote name='Winchester' timestamp='1295140200' post='2200545']
If you hold hands at Mass during the Our Father, you are a fruitcake. You are also a fruitcake if you lift your hands up then or when you're "praying over" someone.
[/quote]

Count on Winchester to say what we all know to be true, and what needs to be said.


~Sternhauser

[IgnatiusofLoyola]

[quote name='Winchester' ]
If you hold hands at Mass during the Our Father, you are a fruitcake. You are also a fruitcake if you lift your hands up then or when you're "praying over" someone.

[/quote]

I might even go to Mass if I could see what YOU do when someone wants to hold hands with you during the Our Father. It would make my day.

Edited January 16, 2011 by IgnatiusofLoyola

[Cam42]

[quote name='Ed Normile' timestamp='1295144124' post='2200577']
Pax Christi is a good one meaning peace of Christ, I thought pax Dei meaning peace of God was another good one, and i think Pax Domine means peace, lord or the form master, used as a greeting.

ed
[/quote]

Pax Christi is an acceptable greeting.....Pax Dei really isn't used, because it doesn't make sense in Latin. One doesn't say the Peace of God. One would say the Peace of Christ....Finally, Pax Domine, is wrong tense with regard to Dominus. You would say Pax Domini.