Holding Hands During Our Father At Mass

[cmotherofpirl]

[quote name='Lil Red' timestamp='1295123934' post='2200457']
it amazes me how childish some adults can be.
[/quote]
Well some of the guys thought it entertaining to embarrass me week after week, so I just gave up. I still sing all the funerals.

[Lil Red]

[quote name='cmotherofpirl' timestamp='1295124492' post='2200460']
Well some of the guys thought it entertaining to embarrass me week after week, so I just gave up. I still sing all the funerals.
[/quote]
idiots.

[IgnatiusofLoyola]

[quote name='Cam42' timestamp='1295122710' post='2200448']
How many abuses are you going to bring up in one post.....WOW!!!! LOL!!!

[/quote]

Well, if someone needs another excuse to kneel after communion and not hold hands during the Our Father, I'd say it could be argued that the custom of being expected/required to stand and being expected to hold hands are Protestant in origin. (Although, I don't really know if some Protestants held hands during the Our Father before Catholics or not. There is no documentation that I know of of the first time this took place, and where.)

But, certainly not having kneelers and not having an altar rail has been the custom in many Protestant denominations ever since they came into being. I was shocked the first time I went into a Baptist church and saw no kneelers and saw no altar rail.

At my Catholic wedding, in deference to the fact that the only Catholics present were the priest, my ex-husband, and one of my aunts, and many of our Protestant friends (not to mention my atheist father) would be uncomfortable kneeling, we set up the service so that my ex-husband and I were the only ones to kneel. It took a little work, and little did we know that not that many years later, not kneeling at all in the pews would be standard in many Catholic churches, much less that the altar rail would be taken away in many churches. (My wedding was certainly after Vatican II, but the church where it took place had kneelers and an altar rail.)

I don't care if people want to stand, sit, or kneel after communion. As long as it's not against the magisterium, a person should feel comfortable in his or her choice.

As for holding hands, I'm really surprised that no one has argued that it could lead to lustful feelings. Certainly, as a teenager, when my teen church group held hands during prayers, I tried very hard to "happen" to be standing next to a guy I found attractive. In fact, much later, holding hands during a group prayer was how I met my ex-husband. And yes, I deliberately "happened" to be standing next to him. The rest is history.

[penguin31]

My default is to not hold hands, and generally speaking I try to stick that. It's normally not a problem at my home parish. If I'm visiting another parish though, and surrounded by people who desperately want to hold my hand, I'll generally follow along with it. I don't want to draw attention to myself and away from the mass all over the matter of hand holding. But barring that circumstance I really try to avoid holding hands. I don't know, maybe it's just me, but the whole idea of hand holding during the Our Father feels like something you'd see going on at a protestant church.

[Chamomile]

[font="Arial"][size="2"]This was just recently posted on Fr. Z's blog, and I think it highlights why this is an issue. This is St. Augustine speaking on the placement of the Our Father in the Mass:




[quote]"Why is it spoken before the reception of Christ's Body and Blood? For the following reason: If perchance, in consequence of human frailty, our thought seized on something indecent, if our tongue spoke something unjust, if our eye was turned to something unseemly, if our ear listened complacently to something unnecessary… it is blotted out by the Lord's Prayer in the passage 'forgive us our trespasses', so that we may approach in peace and so that we may not eat or drink what we receive unto judgment." ([/size][/font][i][font="Arial"][size="2"]s. [/size][/font][/i][font="Arial"][size="2"]229,3)[/quote]




[/size][/font][color="#000000"][font="Arial"][size="2"]It's a very solemn moment of preparation. I think if we spent more time learning about why we do certain things at Mass - their significance, the history, the symbolism - it would be strange to think about holding hands at this point. To me, it's a private moment, and yet we are in expectation of being brought together as we approach Holy Communion. To me, holding hands would cheapen this, and I don't see how that prepares us to receive Christ.[/size][/font][/color]
[font="Georgia,"][color="#000000"][font="arial, verdana, tahoma, sans-serif"] [/font][/color][/font]

[Chamomile]

Also...

[quote name='dominicansoul' timestamp='1295120798' post='2200428']
Every single thing we do during the Mass, every movement, gesture is lined out in the GIRM, because every single thing we do, say, has a specific meaning behind it. It is NOT correct to add things to the Mass, as this breaks with the continuity of unitive worship for Catholics. PLUS a lot of the added gestures really are meaningless....

[/quote]

[Sternhauser]

[quote name='Lil Red' timestamp='1295120015' post='2200422']
[media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Cc0g3UMRtMM[/media]

are we soldiers? lol.
[/quote]

In the first part of the video, Cardinal Arinze was putting all of the words in his statement onto the paper with the power of his mind. Then he memorized them.

~Sternhauser

[Ice_nine]

I like holding hands. I'm one of those toucy-feely types. But not at Mass! That just seems cheesy to me and then there are the myriad of other reasons which other people have so eloquently stated.

As for the sign of peace I always thought shaking hands was just the way to go. Hugging and all that nonsense I feel is out of place during the Mass. Actually the sign of peace is particularly anxious cause I have social anxiety and it's just almost distracting and needless and I don't know what's the right thing to do ahhh! I heard that in the new translation of the liturgy the sign of the peace might be shifted to the beginning of the mass, is that true or did I hear wrong?

And when I receive Communion, I kneel before the Host and then stand up to receive. I mean it is our Lord and I feel I must show due reverence but seeing as everyone else just either stands, bows or whatever and I don't wanna attract attention to myself being the different kid. Silly anxiety issues. Whatchugonnado? I just feel like at Mass I would rather focus on God then all of this peripheral junk. There is only so much available space up there in my head!

[vee]

[quote name='Cam42' timestamp='1295116532' post='2200396']
And I do that by kneeling down and praying for them. That is appropriate.
[/quote]

Why not kneel and pray for them before and after Mass and follow the established custom of extending a sign of peace during Mass? It is up to the priest to decide if he will include it in the Mass and if he includes it it would be a good mortification and show of obedience to follow suit.

[LadyOfSorrows]

[quote name='vee8' timestamp='1295137210' post='2200517']
Why not kneel and pray for them before and after Mass and follow the established custom of extending a sign of peace during Mass? It is up to the priest to decide if he will include it in the Mass and if he includes it it would be a good mortification and show of obedience to follow suit.
[/quote]

I agree. Even if one doesn't feel it "appropriate," it is still PART of the Mass, and by not participating, it's an act of disobedience. You may actually find it very humbling... Humility is a great virtue...

Edited January 16, 2011 by LadyOfSorrows

[Micah]

People in this thread are mixing up the sign of peace and the holding hands during "Our Father.." [img]http://www.phatmass.com/phorum/public/style_emoticons/default/saint.gif[/img]

[Tab'le De'Bah-Rye]

[quote name='Cam42' timestamp='1295122326' post='2200446']
In that instance, you would have been more correct to say, Pax Domini sit semper vobiscum. Rather than dominus vobiscum. You weren't calling for one to enter into prayer. The latter is a specific call to prayer. The Pax Domini is more appropriate....

I'm a bit of a Latinist, 10 years of the stuff will do that to ya.....sorry....
[/quote]

Can you please give the meaning of that greeting for us all in english, that if we choose to learn it and use it we know the meaning.

[Winchester]

If you hold hands at Mass during the Our Father, you are a fruitcake. You are also a fruitcake if you lift your hands up then or when you're "praying over" someone.

[IcePrincessKRS]

[quote name='Micah' timestamp='1295139916' post='2200539']
People in this thread are mixing up the sign of peace and the holding hands during "Our Father.." [img]http://www.phatmass.com/phorum/public/style_emoticons/default/saint.gif[/img]
[/quote]

Some of us just don't like doing either one.

[quote name='Winchester' timestamp='1295140200' post='2200545']
If you hold hands at Mass during the Our Father, you are a fruitcake. You are also a fruitcake if you lift your hands up then or when you're "praying over" someone.
[/quote]

[Lilllabettt]

[quote name='Cam42' timestamp='1295119651' post='2200419']
The whole rules thing, yeah, that's not American. We have rubrics (rules) that are handed to us by Rome. I would argue that it is more of an American thing to NOT follow the rules. Although parts of Europe are pretty bad too.

As for actually holding hands during the Our Father, there is a proscription about adding things which I quoted above. Not being legalistic, being factual. If you don't like it, too bad. We are a ritualistic Church. Everything we do has meaning and those meanings are guided by rules. Rules are not there to hinder us, but to help us to be more in union with our worship of the Lord.

As for the sending things to Rome, I can guarantee you that is how Rome wants it. They've said it over and over and over. That is not a bad thing either. You'd be surprised and what does go over. I have a priest friend who works in the Vatican....most of it is poppy-pickle (his words, not mine).
[/quote]



Doing something with your hands during a prayer is not "adding" something. We have hands, something must be done with them when we are not using them. Folding hands church-steeple style is not mentioned ... when people do that it is not an "addition" either. As far as I know the rubrics never indicate what the laity are supposed to do with their hands. But clearly they've got to do something with them, right?

The truth is the Church does not care what we do with our hands when we pray ... within the bounds of normal common sense. (In other words, don't pray with your hands in the Texas longhorn salute.) We are supposed to use our common sense, not require a rule for every last thing. We are grown ups, not babies.