Speaking In Tongues

[infinitelord1]

I have been finding things on the internet about how Speaking in Tongues is a part of Catholic Teaching. Im not really sure what to think about speaking in tongues to be honest. I havent ever seen any Church Father, Catechism, or Canon Law Teachings on the subject. Do these teachings exist? Or was it a matter of the so called "Catholic Charasmatic Renewal" of 1967. If it is...then I am totally disgusted with that. I will not believe in Speaking in Tongues unless this has been a teaching of the Church since 0 A.D.

All responses will be appreciated.

[AudreyGrace]

Well, official Church teaching encourages all gifts of the Holy Spirit, while being subject to the authority of the Church. The Church also teaches that all gifts of the Holy Spirit must be accepted with gratitude, provided it is a genuine gift of the Holy Spirit that can be used charitably. Check out the Catechism paragraphs 799-801.

I'm not sure how I feel about it personally, seeing that people who talk in tongues can't always remember what they're saying afterwards. In that case, if they are unable to share the conversation, it seems like it could be uncharitable... so idk. However, some people receive the gift of interpreting tongues, where they can understand what a tongue speaker is saying. If they can then share for the good of the Church and others, it would be charitable.

I've been around people while they were talking in tongues, I wasn't thrown off by it or anything, but I did feel the Holy Spirit's presence. I've never received the gift myself, either.

I'm sure there's someone else on here who can offer up much better and more educated input that I have, though. : )

[Ed Normile]

I do not know anything about church teachings on this subject, I do know that I have seen it tear apart several congregations and a few marriages to boot. I personally feel its nonsense, not that the Holy Spirit can enter someone and cause them to speak in tongues, rather the charismatic version, with the rock music and people being slain in the spirit, where they fall easily into someones arms, or start rambling at the mouth gibberish like Robert Deniro's characther in the remake of Cape Fear. I seen a whole catholic church torn apart from the charismatic movement, parishioners who thought it was nonsense while others stating they were special as they were chosen to speak in tongues. I know that when the Apostles spoke in tongues it was a gift from the Holy Spirit to be able to evangelize to each person they met in their native tongue so that person could understand them.

I do remember that Pope JPII wrote an Open Letter to Charismatics, I think it can still be found at the Holy See website [url="http://www.vatican.va"]http://www.vatican.va[/url] calling for charismatics to come back to the Church and ground themselves in realistic approved Church practises, he also stated that the charismatic movement was similiar to a flight of fantasy engaged in by those who want to flatter their egos. This letter was written to address the Church in Gemany which the charismatic movement nearly destroyed. There was also a Bishop in Arizona I beleive, that was excommunicated over allowing charismatic dance during the mass, I guess it was performed by young women in white semi transparent robes and they swayed and moved their hands and arms to interpret the readings of the Gospel, and this went on right through the Consecration of the Eucharist. Several of the people I knew who were into the movement in the eighties have left the Church completely, they have no religious beleifs at all now, and a few others I know are now of different protestant sects. In all the cases I have seen or heard of this movement it has been detrimental to the church as well as those who particpated in it, better to steer clear of this " new age " practise.

ed

Edited January 12, 2011 by Ed Normile

[cmotherofpirl]

[quote name='infinitelord1' timestamp='1294809722' post='2199264']
I have been finding things on the internet about how Speaking in Tongues is a part of Catholic Teaching. Im not really sure what to think about speaking in tongues to be honest. I havent ever seen any Church Father, Catechism, or Canon Law Teachings on the subject. Do these teachings exist? Or was it a matter of the so called "Catholic Charasmatic Renewal" of 1967. If it is...then I am totally disgusted with that. I will not believe in Speaking in Tongues unless this has been a teaching of the Church since 0 A.D.

All responses will be appreciated.
[/quote]
I don't know how you would trace it thru church history, but I do know I have read many stories of saints lost in ecstasy and contemplation of God, so I see no reason to discount it. Its a gift of the Holy Spirit and its distrubuted as she wills.

[Ice_nine]

[quote name='Ed Normile' timestamp='1294811013' post='2199272']
I do not know anything about church teachings on this subject, I do know that I have seen it tear apart several congregations and a few marriages to boot. I personally feel its nonsense, not that the Holy Spirit can enter someone and cause them to speak in tongues, rather the charismatic version, with the rock music and people being slain in the spirit, where they fall easily into someones arms, or start rambling at the mouth gibberish like Robert Deniro's characther in the remake of Cape Fear.
[/quote]

Like this http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5lvU-DislkI

[infinitelord1]

[quote name='Ice_nine' timestamp='1294813979' post='2199290']
Like this http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5lvU-DislkI
[/quote]

That is hilarious.

[infinitelord1]

I think this verse gives us an idea of what speaking in tongues is.

[Acts 2:4,6]- "And they were all filled with the Holy Ghost, and began to speak with other tongues as the Spirit gave them utterance. Now when this was noised abroad, the multitude came together, and were confounded, because that every man heard them speak in his own language."



For if I pray in a tongue, my spirit prays but my mind is unfruitful. What am I to do? I will pray with my spirit, but I will pray with my mind also; I will sing praise with my spirit, but I will sing with my mind also. Otherwise, if you give thanks with your spirit, how can anyone in the position of an outsider say “Amen” to your thanksgiving when he does not know what you are saying? For you may be giving thanks well enough, but the other person is not being built up. I thank God that I speak in tongues more than all of you. Nevertheless, in church I would rather speak five words with my mind in order to instruct others, than ten thousand words in a tongue.
—1 Corinthians 14:14-19

While Peter was still saying these things, the Holy Spirit fell on all who heard the word. And the believers from among the circumcised who had come with Peter were amazed, because the gift of the Holy Spirit was poured out even on the Gentiles. For they were hearing them speaking in tongues and extolling God. Then Peter declared, “Can anyone withhold water for baptizing these people, who have received the Holy Spirit just as we have?”
—Acts 10:44-47

Maybe the Holy Spirit wanted the Apostles and former Jews to see that the Gentiles were now apart of the Body of Christ?
---------------------------------------------------------
7 Now to each one the manifestation of the Spirit is given for the common good. 8 To one there is given through the Spirit a message of wisdom, to another a message of knowledge by means of the same Spirit, 9 to another faith by the same Spirit, to another gifts of healing by that one Spirit, 10 to another miraculous powers, to another prophecy, to another distinguishing between spirits, to another speaking in different kinds of tongues,[a] and to still another the interpretation of tongues.[b] 11 All these are the work of one and the same Spirit, and he distributes them to each one, just as he determines.

-1 Corinthians 12:7-11

Now you are the body of Christ and individually members of it. And God has appointed in the church first apostles, second prophets, third teachers, then miracles, then gifts of healing, helping, administrating, and various kinds of tongues. Are all apostles? Are all prophets? Are all teachers? Do all work miracles? Do all possess gifts of healing? Do all speak with tongues? Do all interpret? But earnestly desire the higher gifts.
And I will show you a still more excellent way.
—1 Corinthians 12:27-31

Well, Based on these 2 passages...at least we know that not everyone speaks in tongues. Wouldn't that destroy the Oneness Pentecostal Movement at least?
---------------------------------------------------------------
Pursue love, and earnestly desire the spiritual gifts, especially that you may prophesy. For one who speaks in a tongue speaks not to men but to God; for no one understands him, but he utters mysteries in the Spirit. On the other hand, the one who prophesies speaks to people for their upbuilding and encouragement and consolation. The one who speaks in a tongue builds up himself, but the one who prophesies builds up the church. Now I want you all to speak in tongues, but even more to prophesy. The one who prophesies is greater than the one who speaks in tongues, unless someone interprets, so that the church may be built up.
—1 Corinthians 14:1-5

Well, I guess its really pointless to speak in tongues unless theres an interpreter. It doesnt benefit anyone but the individual who is speaking it.
--------------------------------------------------
For if I pray in a tongue, my spirit prays but my mind is unfruitful. What am I to do? I will pray with my spirit, but I will pray with my mind also; I will sing praise with my spirit, but I will sing with my mind also. Otherwise, if you give thanks with your spirit, how can anyone in the position of an outsider say “Amen” to your thanksgiving when he does not know what you are saying? For you may be giving thanks well enough, but the other person is not being built up. I thank God that I speak in tongues more than all of you. Nevertheless, in church I would rather speak five words with my mind in order to instruct others, than ten thousand words in a tongue.
—1 Corinthians 14:14-19

Oh so Speaking in tongues isnt that important?
---------------------------------------------------
If anyone thinks that he is a prophet, or spiritual, he should acknowledge that the things I am writing to you are a command of the Lord. If anyone does not recognize this, he is not recognized. So, my brothers, earnestly desire to prophesy, and do not forbid speaking in tongues. But all things should be done decently and in order.
—1 Corinthians 14:37-40

Well at least speaking in tongues shoulnt include running around hootin and hollerin...and rolling around on the ground twitching, etc.
--------------------------------------------

[Ephesians 4:9-13]-9 (What does “he ascended” mean except that he also descended to the lower, earthly regions[c]? 10 He who descended is the very one who ascended higher than all the heavens, in order to fill the whole universe.) 11 So Christ himself gave the apostles, the prophets, the evangelists, the pastors and teachers, 12 to equip his people for works of service, so that the body of Christ may be built up 13 until we all reach unity in the faith and in the knowledge of the Son of God and become mature, attaining to the whole measure of the fullness of Christ.

Thats mostly what I found.
-----------------------------------------------

I have to say... I'm not too fond of Paul right now. Im totally not liking this subject too.

Edited January 12, 2011 by infinitelord1

[infinitelord1]

............

Edited January 12, 2011 by infinitelord1

[infinitelord1]

[quote name='Ed Normile' timestamp='1294811013' post='2199272']
I do not know anything about church teachings on this subject, I do know that I have seen it tear apart several congregations and a few marriages to boot. I personally feel its nonsense, not that the Holy Spirit can enter someone and cause them to speak in tongues, rather the charismatic version, with the rock music and people being slain in the spirit, where they fall easily into someones arms, or start rambling at the mouth gibberish like Robert Deniro's characther in the remake of Cape Fear. I seen a whole catholic church torn apart from the charismatic movement, parishioners who thought it was nonsense while others stating they were special as they were chosen to speak in tongues. I know that when the Apostles spoke in tongues it was a gift from the Holy Spirit to be able to evangelize to each person they met in their native tongue so that person could understand them.

I do remember that Pope JPII wrote an Open Letter to Charismatics, I think it can still be found at the Holy See website [url="http://www.vatican.va"]http://www.vatican.va[/url] calling for charismatics to come back to the Church and ground themselves in realistic approved Church practises, he also stated that the charismatic movement was similiar to a flight of fantasy engaged in by those who want to flatter their egos. This letter was written to address the Church in Gemany which the charismatic movement nearly destroyed. There was also a Bishop in Arizona I beleive, that was excommunicated over allowing charismatic dance during the mass, I guess it was performed by young women in white semi transparent robes and they swayed and moved their hands and arms to interpret the readings of the Gospel, and this went on right through the Consecration of the Eucharist. Several of the people I knew who were into the movement in the eighties have left the Church completely, they have no religious beleifs at all now, and a few others I know are now of different protestant sects. In all the cases I have seen or heard of this movement it has been detrimental to the church as well as those who particpated in it, better to steer clear of this " new age " practise.

ed
[/quote]


I wonder where slain in the spirit is found in scripture....i cant help but laugh at that phrase.

[Archaeology cat]

To be honest, this is something I have a problem with. Glossolalia just doesn't seem legitimate to me, and seems like Babel all over again, instead of what is shown in Acts, where people of different languages could understand the Apostles. I think there have been Saints with this gift as well. Now, I also know that there are times when people are so overcome that they cannot pray in words, and St Paul tells us that in those instances, the Holy Spirit prays for us. But again, that doesn't seem to be the glossolalia that most think of when hearing the phrase "speaking in tongues". So yeah, I tend to just leave it at that, and remain skeptical, but withholding actual judgment in the matter since I'm far from being an expert.

[Jesus_lol]

All i can tell you about speaking in tongues, is that i am pretty sure it is complete bull, but it is also pretty freaky.

I had the privilege of spending four hours in a row at a spanish speaking church in guatemala with my host family (maybe twice?), whole lot of singing, dancing, loud hoppy music, heartfelt speeches i couldnt understand and people falling to the floor and spazzing out, mumbling mumbo jumbo. some surreal experience that.

Im really hoping that had nothing to do with God, cause if thats what God means i wanted no part of it that night.

[infinitelord1]

LOL....i know some of you guys dont really approve of Wikipedia but check this out....I found some stuff on Early Church Fathers and there 2 cents on Speaking in tongues....



He became possessed of a spirit, and suddenly began to rave in a kind of ecstatic trance, and to babble in a jargon, prophesying in a manner contrary to the custom of the Church which had been handed down by tradition from the earliest times. (Eusebius, d.c.339)[41]


This whole phenomenon [of speaking in tongues] is very obscure, but the obscurity is produced by our ignorance of the facts referred to and by their cessation, being such then as used to occur but now no longer take place. And why do they not happen now? Why look now, the cause too of the obscurity hath produced us again another question: namely, why did they then happen, and now do so no more? (Chrysostom, 344-407)[43]


In the earliest times, "the Holy Ghost fell upon them that believed: and they spake with tongues", which they had not learned, "as the Spirit gave them utterance". These were signs adapted to the time. For there behooved to be that betokening of the Holy Spirit in all tongues, to shew that the Gospel of God was to run through all tongues over the whole earth. That thing was done for a betokening, and it passed away. In the laying on of hands now, that persons may receive the Holy Ghost, do we look that they should speak with tongues? Or when he laid the hand on infants, did each one of you look to see whether they would speak with tongues, and, when he saw that they did not speak with tongues, was any of you so strong-minded as to say, These have not received the Holy Ghost; for, had they received, they would speak with tongues as was the case in those times? If then the witness of the presence of the Holy Ghost be not given through these miracles, by what is it given, by what does one get to know that he has received the Holy Ghost? Let him question his own heart. If he love his brother, the Spirit of God dwelleth in him. (Augustine of Hippo, 354-430)[44]

[Ad Majorem Dei Gloriam]

[quote name='infinitelord1' timestamp='1294903714' post='2199601']
LOL....i know some of you guys dont really approve of Wikipedia but check this out....I found some stuff on Early Church Fathers and there 2 cents on Speaking in tongues....
[/quote]

Be careful the gavel swings both ways with the Church Fathers on this issue. The Montanist heresy was known for a type of prophesying that was found in the rustic people and made no room for the hierarchy passed down from the Apostles. It was known not only for its prophesying but its loud ecstatic outbursts during the liturgy as a form of prayer and believed themeselves and these outbursts to be inspired by the Holy Spirit. (When I read about it, it always seemed to be describes as babbling and such like 'Speaking in Tongues'). The Churches of Asia Minor condemned it and wrote to Rome concerning it. Also the Churches of Gaul condemned it and also wrote to Rome asking for the Pope to condemn it. The Churches of Gaul sent St. Irenaeus to Rome to ask the Pope to condemn it. He also carried letters from those who had been about to be martyred for the faith, and who eventually were, that were pleading the case of their own home Church and wrote on behalf of the brother Churches in Asia Minor who had more of a problem with the Montanists. The Pope, who had initially been unwilling to condemn the Montanists, did eventually condemn the Montanism.

[infinitelord1]

[quote name='Ad Majorem Dei Gloriam' timestamp='1294905382' post='2199606']
Be careful the gavel swings both ways with the Church Fathers on this issue. The Montanist heresy was known for a type of prophesying that was found in the rustic people and made no room for the hierarchy passed down from the Apostles. It was known not only for its prophesying but its loud ecstatic outbursts during the liturgy as a form of prayer and believed themeselves and these outbursts to be inspired by the Holy Spirit. (When I read about it, it always seemed to be describes as babbling and such like 'Speaking in Tongues'). The Churches of Asia Minor condemned it and wrote to Rome concerning it. Also the Churches of Gaul condemned it and also wrote to Rome asking for the Pope to condemn it. The Churches of Gaul sent St. Irenaeus to Rome to ask the Pope to condemn it. He also carried letters from those who had been about to be martyred for the faith, and who eventually were, that were pleading the case of their own home Church and wrote on behalf of the brother Churches in Asia Minor who had more of a problem with the Montanists. The Pope, who had initially been unwilling to condemn the Montanists, did eventually condemn the Montanism.
[/quote]

You may be right...but based on the information provided on Wikipedia...it seems that hardly any of the Church Fathers made any definitive statements supporting the use of Speaking in the Tongues. And at a certain point it was deemed "passed away".

Do you have any sources that confirm that the Pope condemned Montanism? That would be nice to see.

[Ad Majorem Dei Gloriam]

[quote name='infinitelord1' timestamp='1294906240' post='2199607']
Do you have any sources that confirm that the Pope condemned Montanism? That would be nice to see.
[/quote]

Pope Eleuterus was the one who condemned it, I believe. We don't have his letters, though Tertullian makes references to the condemnation from the Pope. Eusebius also notes the Pope did this in his [i]History of the Church[/i] as does St. Irenaeus of Lyons in his [i]Prescription Against Heresies[/i], though the Pope's letters have been lost to time. Both sides agree though that the Pope made this condemnation: those that think he made the right Orthodox decision (Eusebius and Irenaeus) and those that think he made the wrong decision (Tertullian).

EDIT**Grammar

Edited January 13, 2011 by Ad Majorem Dei Gloriam