Don't Go To Law School

[rachael]

[quote name='Mr.CatholicCat' timestamp='1294784494' post='2199102']
Maybe I am critical... but I sort of want quality over quantity, though I do suspect there is a casual relationship between the two.

Wouldn't it be nice if we had citizens, lawyers, judges, and politicians who were just a bit more competent in political science and culture? Perhaps just a bit more ethical too?
[/quote]
The last three have never been ethical.

[Mr.Cat]

[quote name='rachael' timestamp='1294784976' post='2199104']The last three have never been ethical.[/quote] Perhaps. Why must you try to kill my dreams?

[Cherie]

[quote name='CatherineM' timestamp='1294704351' post='2198739']
If I had to do it over again, I wouldn't go to law school.
[/quote]

My husband says the exact same thing!

[Anastasia13]

[quote name='Staretz' timestamp='1294704775' post='2198744']
The movie "The Paper Chase" scared me away from Law School decades ago. When I was in grad studies in history, we used to refer to people who transferreed to Law as having "committed Law School"
[/quote]
I wish I could study something like that. My brother has a temporary registration for a world history class. I didn't know it was to be a full time student in case he didn't make a waitlisted class he is trying to get into. I was like *drool* I would love to study history of Africa and the Middle East and East Europe. But no, almost everything I have studied had to be toward a specific job, and history prof just hasn't been my calling.

Edited January 12, 2011 by Light and Truth

[Ice_nine]

[quote name='Light and Truth' timestamp='1294790627' post='2199146']
I wish I could study something like that. My brother has a temporary registration for a world history class. I didn't know it was to be a full time student in case he didn't make a waitlisted class he is trying to get into. I was like *drool* I would love to study history of Africa and the Middle East and East Europe. But no, almost everything I have studied had to be toward a specific job, and history prof just hasn't been my calling.
[/quote]

Yeah I like learning about all that stuff too. It's good brain exercise. It's too bad though that certain studies are pushed to the periphery because they don't directly improve your career skills or any of those croutons. I guess I'm some crazy romantic who enjoys academics but doesn't wanna be another fluffball in academia land.

I should really go back to college though. Gettin bored.

Sorry I have nothing to contribute to this thread except speaking with an unpleasant disposition and moaning. It happens sometimes.

[Anastasia13]

[quote name='Mr.CatholicCat' timestamp='1294785306' post='2199108']
Perhaps. Why must you try to kill my dreams?
[/quote]
My mom was once a secretary or something at a law firm. She found the lawyers there to be among the most ethical people around. Law is trying on one's ethics more than some careers, but I've read about some sort of association of Christian lawyers. That might be a good place to get advice if you find yourself in an ethically trying position.

I'm curious about the people who did law school and would do it differently. What would they do instead?

[Adrestia]

[quote name='CatherineM' timestamp='1294768151' post='2199001']
Why is it that a man who works on old cars in his garage on weekends is looked at as a cool guy, but a guy who works on old cars for a living is seen as not worth anything?
[/quote]
[quote name='rachael' timestamp='1294776281' post='2199041']
My fiance comes in after a long day in his work boots, mud and dirt everywhere and he usually smells to high heaven. But ask him one question about what he does, he will talk about it for hours. He loves it.
He tells me stories of how home and store owners will look down on him because of what he does. They will yell at him and treat him like dirt. He is 'worth nothing and is tailor trash' etc. But, if they want electricity, internet and TV service they rely on him.
[/quote]
It goes both ways. I live by the water, so lots of stevedores, longshoremen, offshore workers and other dock workers hang out in the local bars. Before I had a chance to introduce myself, they decided that I must look down on them because I wear clean, pressed clothes and speak proper English. (I think that the heard about my education & work from some other local.) Plain old kindness did nothing to help my situation. I spent weeks purposefully sitting next to them and starting conversations before they realized that I don't fit into their snob-shaped box. Now we're friends, but it was work!

[stlmom]

One of my sons is an attorney who was downsized last year and now works for a legal temp agency. (He was in the top 25% of his class and made the Law Review twice.) The job pays the bills but there is nothing left at the end of the month. The school loans are a huge burden. He's had to delay marriage and children because of this. He's back in school taking accounting courses, and hopes to have a permanent job in a couple of years. His advice would be to get a degree in something that is in demand and forget law school.

[Micah]

Wow, thanks for posting this rk. I'm writing my LSAT in a few months, but before I did I wanted to check the job market for JDs. I found there were only two posted job offerings in all of British Columbia. Naturally, all the accountants in my family were like "NO go anyways -- job markets change". But now I'm feeling very dubious. Especially when a 1.5 year degree in informatics at the same school offers almost instant employment and usually pays $25-$35 an hour.

[CatherineM]

I would like to add one thing. Not a day goes by that I don't use my law degree in some way, I just don't use it for monetary gain. I believe in education. I just wish it was made more affordable. I left law school owing $10,000, and I thought that was crushing at the time. I can't imagine owing a couple of hundred thousand. The I believe the greatest era of prosperity and growth was due to the GI Bill. One of my older brothers is a doctor. He went to college on a NROTC scholarship, and then went to law school on the GI Bill after the war. He's got one kid that just finished law school, and one just starting medical school. Neither of those kids will probably have a dime of student loans. If we can't invest in our young people, we are blowing everyone's future.

[missionseeker]

[quote name='rachael' timestamp='1294769229' post='2199008']
Agreed. My fiance didn't go to college, and does better than either of my parents ever did. Unfortunately, he is going now. The job he does is taking a toll on his body and his health at age 25 (he is a cable splicer). There haven't been enough people around who are qualified to do his job, so his employers use and abuse him for his skills. He wants to get his engineering degree before he p[font="Arial"]oops[/font] out. :/ Although, he would love to love to work on old cars for a living...or be a contractor...or run an organic farm...

So, what is it that makes people ashamed doing these kinds of jobs? Or as Catherine said 'not worth anything'? I think these jobs should be paid more than lawyers, doctors, etc.
[/quote]
I dated an electrician who knew waaaaaaayyyy more about math and physics and than I EVER will, despite having paid (through loans and scholarships and pocket money) $115k for this beaver dam education of mine. My dad works out on the railroad. I've often noticed the divide between say.. stock brokers and my father (who was often called on by the stock brokers of the parish to fix something so they wouldn't have to spend the money to pay something.

I don't know, though, I find it way more attractive when guys are able to do handy man things, as opposed to men who are able to afford to hire someone to fix things. Maybe it's just me, though.



[quote name='CatherineM' timestamp='1294774607' post='2199034']
There are places right now where plumbers make more than new lawyers. I think the reason the trades are no longer valued is based in appearances. The richest family in our church growing up was one where the dad ran his own garbage business. He had a shower installed in his garage so he could take one before coming in the house every night. How many women today would even go out on a date with a garbage man?
[/quote]


I would. lol.

[quote name='CatherineM' timestamp='1294858872' post='2199394']
I would like to add one thing. Not a day goes by that I don't use my law degree in some way, I just don't use it for monetary gain. I believe in education. I just wish it was made more affordable. I left law school owing $10,000, and I thought that was crushing at the time. I can't imagine owing a couple of hundred thousand. The I believe the greatest era of prosperity and growth was due to the GI Bill. One of my older brothers is a doctor. He went to college on a NROTC scholarship, and then went to law school on the GI Bill after the war. He's got one kid that just finished law school, and one just starting medical school. Neither of those kids will probably have a dime of student loans. If we can't invest in our young people, we are blowing everyone's future.
[/quote]


I'm actually considering law school (I think that I can afford it without too much more debt id I play my cards right) but I really am not looking to make tons of money. I know enough lawyers that I'd *probably* have a job when I finished. But I worked for several lawyers in my life. I worked for one during a capital murder trial. The defendant is innocent. The lawyer is probably one of the best in the state (he won unanimously in the US Supreme Court for another innocent capital murder suspect.). And I guess that I watched so many other lawyers (particularly prosecutors) who just don't care that kind of compells me to check it out at least.

[she_who_is_not]

My .2 cents as a second semester 3L: Pray about it. God may be calling you to live a life of ministry aided by a legal education. There are so many opportunities to serve the poor through the practice of law. Even if I never pass the bar, or find employment as a lawyer, I have gained tools and information to assist my brothers and sisters who would otherwise be without aid. There are opportunities out there. Non-profit law is not for everyone. It may not be for me. However, I have complete trust in God that my needs will be provided for. If you want to practice Big Law, think about why and see if you could achieve the same end through alternate means. The time, effort, and personal sacrifice required to earn a law degree and enter legal practice are worth far more than a six-figure salary. If that is what you are primarily looking for, I'd recommend you look somewhere else.

[Micah]

I don't think that authentic desire to practice law and a 6 figure salary are necessarily exclusive. For example, I'm interested in law -- admittedly, more so the research and analytical sides -- but I've broken out of my idealistic stage. Money is important. If I decide not to enter religious life, I want to be able to buy a house, support myself, support my community, put my kids through university, and set down big family foundations. I should still be able to pursue whatever I enjoy outside of work. My uncle was an engineer, but now he is retired he is a full time wood worker. His career as an engineer allowed him to buy a big house, a huge workshop to play around in, and a plot of land where he built a small house for when his children grew up.

Trades are nice. My year working on a carpentry team in between highschool and college was invaluable. But working a trade all your life is hard on the body, especially during the colder months of the year. It can damage your hearing, eyesight, joints, and back. My friend is going into welding and tells me that welders have a significantly shorter lifespan from all the toxins they inhale. My brother in law is a plumber, and while he loves his job, it can be just as hit and miss as a university degree. In small towns, a handful of tradesmen control the industry. In big cities, union tradesmen spend alot of their time waiting around on ei waiting for jobs to come their way.

Edited January 12, 2011 by Micah

[Sternhauser]

[quote name='Light and Truth' timestamp='1294832562' post='2199316']
My mom was once a secretary or something at a law firm. She found the lawyers there to be among the most ethical people around. Law is trying on one's ethics more than some careers, but I've read about some sort of association of Christian lawyers. That might be a good place to get advice if you find yourself in an ethically trying position.
[/quote]

Like how to "equitably" split up the children in a divorce case.

~Sternhauser

[rachael]

[quote name='missionseeker' timestamp='1294861690' post='2199410']

I don't know, though, I find it way more attractive when guys are able to do handy man things, as opposed to men who are able to afford to hire someone to fix things. Maybe it's just me, though.

[/quote]
ugh. yes. plus, he puts up with me.