Is This A Sedevacantist Claim?

[tnavarro61]

A friend told me that Russia has never been consecrated and the third secret of Fatima is not yet revealed? I was kinda surprised to hear that from him. Isn't it Russia has been consecrated twice?

Also he said that he heard that the upper hierarchy is filled with masonic bishops and cardinals. I told him that I don't believe it's true.

He said he's hoping that the laxity of Vatican II will come to an end. I replied that it's the improper interpretation and implementation that must come to an end.

I am thinking of a line from the Credo: I believe in the Holy Spirit, in the Holy Catholic Church. I don't believe that Vatican II destroyed the Catholic church, it's just that there are persons who misinterpreted it, thus the abuses. Vatican II didn't mean to destroy the Church, and I believe that the council was protected and guided by the Holy Spirit.

Now are my thoughts right? Are my friend's thoughts "Sedevacantist?" It appears to be sedevacantist to me. I might be wrong though.

Thank you and may God bless you!

[MithLuin]

While sedevacantists may make those claims, not everyone who makes them is sedevacantist.

They're more...'conspiracy theory' than anything. If your friend does not reject the legitimacy and authoritay of the current pope, he's not sedevacantist.

Lots of people are unhappy with changes that have come post-VII, and certainly it makes sense to blame the Council. In reality, yes, a lot of the things people complain about are abuses that need to be corrected, not part of the council itself anyway.

While I can't promise there is no Masonic bishop anywhere, I highly doubt there are tons of them running around. Think of the effort necessary to 'infiltrate' the Church at that level!

[MIKolbe]

moved to Q & A as per OP's request

[Starets]

the laxity thing and the masonic thing are claims i have seen both by sedevacantists and SSPXers. They especially do not like Annabale Bugnini.

[Cam42]

[quote name='tnavarro61' timestamp='1294577277' post='2198108']
A friend told me that Russia has never been consecrated and the third secret of Fatima is not yet revealed? I was kinda surprised to hear that from him. Isn't it Russia has been consecrated twice?

Also he said that he heard that the upper hierarchy is filled with masonic bishops and cardinals. I told him that I don't believe it's true.

He said he's hoping that the laxity of Vatican II will come to an end. I replied that it's the improper interpretation and implementation that must come to an end.

I am thinking of a line from the Credo: I believe in the Holy Spirit, in the Holy Catholic Church. I don't believe that Vatican II destroyed the Catholic church, it's just that there are persons who misinterpreted it, thus the abuses. Vatican II didn't mean to destroy the Church, and I believe that the council was protected and guided by the Holy Spirit.

Now are my thoughts right? Are my friend's thoughts "Sedevacantist?" It appears to be sedevacantist to me. I might be wrong though.

Thank you and may God bless you!
[/quote]


Your friend is incorrect. Russia has, in fact been consecrated twice. First, by Pope Pius XII in 1952 in his apostolic letter [url="http://www.vatican.va/holy_father/pius_xii/apost_letters/documents/hf_p-xii_apl_19520707_sacro-vergente-anno_it.html"]Sacro vergente anno[/url]. The second was by Pope John Paul II, in 1984, however some critics say that this wasn't a consecration to Russia specificially. I tend to agree with that criticism. However, the Church is of the opinion that it has happened twice, therefore, I assent to that. I am certain however, that Russia was consecrated by Pope Pius XII.

As far as a laxity of Vatican II is concerned, that is a cultural issue. If you look at Vatican Council II, it is pretty clear and concise on certain issues. The cultural issues are being addressed and if that is what is meant, then yes, the post-Vatican II culture is becoming less lax.

It isn't for me to know about your friends thoughts as being sedevacantist. I would need to ask a couple of really pointed questions to find out if he adheres to the "sede" mindset. As for your thoughts being right, I would say that you're on the right track. Again, I haven't had a conversation with you personally, so I will reserve judgment on your rightness or wrongness. I will say that based upon what you're asking, you're in line with Holy Mother Church.