MarkKurallSchuenemann Posted January 10, 2011 Share Posted January 10, 2011 (edited) [quote name='Papist' timestamp='1294618277' post='2198369'] Ok. Then who is the authority on deciding which is and is not inconsequential? [/quote] If I say it is of the holy spirit, you will say, my opinion is of the holy spirit as well, so which side chooses who is right and wrong, correct. If I say it is of myself, and it doesn't matter to me, then you are going to say, well mine is of the holy spirit, and you are wrong, correct. So, lets take the high road together and say, it doesn't matter to me, so it's a null-subject. I'm not even going to show an example of how personal differences mean hardly anything in trusting Christ. [quote name='Luigi' timestamp='1294203682' post='2196834'] http://www.phatmass.com/phorum/index.php?showtopic=110150&view=findpost&p=2196834 Jesus told the parable of the good seed sown with the weeds. The grower couldn't uproot the weeds without danger of uprooting the wheat. Sometimes you have to live with the weeds... the wheat will keep growing, too... the goal is tend the wheat and hope the weeds will die out... the growing season is your life. [/quote] [quote name='Brother Adam' timestamp='1294205040' post='2196856'] http://www.phatmass.com/phorum/index.php?showtopic=110150&view=findpost&p=2196856 It depends on what your reference here is. If you mean that you have to live with your sin, I would disagree. If it means that Satan is at work in this world and we will be tempted and live among those who follow him, yes. [/quote] Who is right or wrong. Although I would partially lean on what BA just said, that parable is ever real from my POV, as I see a world where business leaders, environmental leaders, government leaders, and many other leaders who have no respect for human life at all - and I go, God - how did this all happen, and why don't you just take care of it right now - and the lord of the field says straight to my heart, it is not time, if I do it too early, than I could mess up things with humanity and that could destroy your faith in me! There other interpretation is harmless, and something of grace that God added to Luigi's life, so why take that small piece of grace from him that God will take away his sin in due time through the process of sanctification. Edited January 10, 2011 by MarkKurallSchuenemann Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cmotherofpirl Posted January 10, 2011 Share Posted January 10, 2011 [quote name='MarkKurallSchuenemann' timestamp='1294597298' post='2198181'] Or is it the traditions that came from the scriptures? You can't know, can you, because were are not there! [/quote] Neither were you, but we are backed up by 2000 years of church writings and teaching, and you are going on your own opinion. Tradition is older the the New Testament, the NT came from Tradition, it is a part of it, but not the sum of it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarkKurallSchuenemann Posted January 10, 2011 Share Posted January 10, 2011 [quote name='cmotherofpirl' timestamp='1294624354' post='2198415'] Neither were you, but we are backed up by 2000 years of church writings and teaching, and you are going on your own opinion. Tradition is older the the New Testament, the NT came from Tradition, it is a part of it, but not the sum of it. [/quote] Although I disagree with you, I admire your trust in tradition. I just don't believe we need it, as God has revealed himself through his son, of which we have this amazing written document of witnesses showing who he was, so that we could learn all we need to learn of God to be saved through the Scriptures! After all, this entire world will one day pass away, but not one jot or tittle of scripture will ever change! One day, the Roman Catholic Church will be no more, but scripture will remain! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HisChildForever Posted January 10, 2011 Share Posted January 10, 2011 [quote name='MarkKurallSchuenemann' timestamp='1294625985' post='2198424'] One day, the Roman Catholic Church will be no more, but scripture will remain! [/quote] Sorry, but Christ assured us that the "gates of Hell" will not prevail upon His Church. Also the Church is the guardian of Sacred Scripture, so of course Scripture will remain. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HisChildForever Posted January 10, 2011 Share Posted January 10, 2011 [quote name='MarkKurallSchuenemann' timestamp='1294622610' post='2198397'] If I say it is of the holy spirit, you will say, my opinion is of the holy spirit as well, so which side chooses who is right and wrong, correct. If I say it is of myself, and it doesn't matter to me, then you are going to say, well mine is of the holy spirit, and you are wrong, correct. So, lets take the high road together and say, it doesn't matter to me, so it's a null-subject. I'm not even going to show an example of how personal differences mean hardly anything in trusting Christ. [/quote] It is not a "null subject". The Holy Scriptures can only be interpreted [u]one[/u] way. Without the teaching authority of the Catholic Church, interpretations become incredibly subjective and self-serving. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KnightofChrist Posted January 10, 2011 Share Posted January 10, 2011 [quote name='MarkKurallSchuenemann' timestamp='1294625985' post='2198424'] One day, the Roman Catholic Church will be no more, but scripture will remain! [/quote] The Church is the Body of Christ, and He is the Alpha and the Omega the First and the Last. He shall never pass away, nor shall His body pass away. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarkKurallSchuenemann Posted January 10, 2011 Share Posted January 10, 2011 [quote name='HisChildForever' timestamp='1294626259' post='2198427'] Sorry, but Christ assured us that the "gates of Hell" will not prevail upon His Church. Also the Church is the guardian of Sacred Scripture, so of course Scripture will remain. [/quote] You're taking what I just said negatively, and you shouldn't. Jesus said this world would pass away, and all the things of this world would, but Scripture will remain. [quote]Matthew 5:17-19 Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil. [sup][/sup]For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled. [sup][/sup]Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.[/quote] Do you think Jesus will need a Pope, or anybody else for that matter, once he comes back to the Earth to take the entire government on his shoulders?! He will not need a church anymore, Roman Catholic or otherwise, it will be dissolved before him. But Scripture will remain until the end! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KnightofChrist Posted January 10, 2011 Share Posted January 10, 2011 [quote name='MarkKurallSchuenemann' timestamp='1294626538' post='2198434'] You're taking what I just said negatively, and you shouldn't. Jesus said this world would pass away, and all the things of this world would, but Scripture will remain. Do you think Jesus will need a Pope, or anybody else for that matter, once he comes back to the Earth to take the entire government on his shoulders?! He will not need a church anymore, Roman Catholic or otherwise, it will be dissolved before him. But Scripture will remain until the end! [/quote] The Church is not of the world. She is of Jesus Christ. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HisChildForever Posted January 10, 2011 Share Posted January 10, 2011 [quote name='MarkKurallSchuenemann' timestamp='1294626538' post='2198434'] You're taking what I just said negatively, and you shouldn't. Jesus said this world would pass away, and all the things of this world would, but Scripture will remain.[/quote] The Holy Catholic Church transcends "this world". [quote] Do you think Jesus will need a Pope, or anybody else for that matter, once he comes back to the Earth to take the entire government on his shoulders?! He will not need a church anymore, Roman Catholic or otherwise, it will be dissolved before him. But Scripture will remain until the end! [/quote] You need to stop separating the Church and Scripture, it is poor theology. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KnightofChrist Posted January 10, 2011 Share Posted January 10, 2011 [quote name='MarkKurallSchuenemann' timestamp='1294626538' post='2198434'] Do you think Jesus will need a Pope, or anybody else for that matter, once he comes back to the Earth to take the entire government on his shoulders?! [/quote] The Pope is visible head of the Church on earth until the return of Christ, when Christ returns He will be the visible head of the Church on earth. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarkKurallSchuenemann Posted January 10, 2011 Share Posted January 10, 2011 [quote name='KnightofChrist' timestamp='1294626509' post='2198432'] The Church is the Body of Christ, and He is the Alpha and the Omega the First and the Last. He shall never pass away, nor shall His body pass away. [/quote] All I am saying is this - in the future, the only person you will need to accept is Christ. Christ will not need the Pope. Take the story of Minas Tyrth in the Lord of the Rings. There is a steward that keeps the throne until the King comes to take it. Well, isn't that the pope right now. So when Jesus comes, the role of pope is removed, and the only person you need to accept will be Jesus Christ. All I am saying right now is that is just in the future, that's right now - the only person you need to accept is Jesus Christ - the Jesus Christ the apostles taught about in the scriptures. Because why would God make it, you just have to accept my son in the future, and the pope and my son now? God is immutable, so if it was just his son in the future, it will be just his son now, and just his son in the past! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarkKurallSchuenemann Posted January 10, 2011 Share Posted January 10, 2011 (edited) [quote name='HisChildForever' timestamp='1294626716' post='2198437'] The Holy Catholic Church transcends "this world". You need to stop separating the Church and Scripture, it is poor theology. [/quote] Scripture shows that Jesus considered scripture more important than anything of this earth, where is your scripture backing what you just said up? Edited January 10, 2011 by MarkKurallSchuenemann Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KnightofChrist Posted January 10, 2011 Share Posted January 10, 2011 [quote name='MarkKurallSchuenemann' timestamp='1294626823' post='2198439'] All I am saying is this - in the future, the only person you will need to accept is Christ. Christ will not need the Pope. Take the story of Minas Tyrth in the Lord of the Rings. There is a steward that keeps the throne until the King comes to take it. Well, isn't that the pope right now. So when Jesus comes, the role of pope is removed, and the only person you need to accept will be Jesus Christ. All I am saying right now is that is just in the future, that's right now - the only person you need to accept is Jesus Christ - the Jesus Christ the apostles taught about in the scriptures. Because why would God make it, you just have to accept my son in the future, and the pope and my son now? God is immutable, so if it was just his son in the future, it will be just his son now, and just his son in the past! [/quote] Christ will effectively be the Pope when He returns. Right now Christ has placed authority and given the keys to bind and loose to His vicar, the Pope, and it is necessary to be obey and heed the words of the Holy Pontiff to be saved. Acts 11:13-14 And he told us how he had seen an angel in his house, standing, and saying to him: Send to Joppe, and call hither Simon, who is surnamed Peter, Who shall speak to thee words, whereby thou shalt be saved, and all thy house. Acts 15:7 And when there had been much disputing, Peter, rising up, said to them: Men, brethren, you know, that in former days God made choice among us, that by my mouth the Gentiles should hear the word of the gospel, and believe. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KnightofChrist Posted January 10, 2011 Share Posted January 10, 2011 (edited) [quote name='MarkKurallSchuenemann' timestamp='1294626978' post='2198442'] Scripture shows that Jesus considered scripture more important than anything of this earth, where is your scripture backing what you just said up? [/quote] Jesus is more important than Scripture. Scripture is the written word of God where as Christ is the Word of God. Edited January 10, 2011 by KnightofChrist Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarkKurallSchuenemann Posted January 10, 2011 Share Posted January 10, 2011 (edited) [quote name='KnightofChrist' timestamp='1294627300' post='2198443'] Christ will effectively be the Pope when He returns. Right now Christ has placed authority and given the keys to bind and loose to His vicar, the Pope, and it is necessary to be obey and heed the words of the Holy Pontiff to be saved. Acts 11:13-14 And he told us how he had seen an angel in his house, standing, and saying to him: Send to Joppe, and call hither Simon, who is surnamed Peter, Who shall speak to thee words, whereby thou shalt be saved, and all thy house. Acts 15:7 And when there had been much disputing, Peter, rising up, said to them: Men, brethren, you know, that in former days God made choice among us, that by my mouth the Gentiles should hear the word of the gospel, and believe. [/quote] It's true that God used Peter to spread the word of his son to the world, but we just need to accept the words of Peter's testimony to be saved. if Peter did something wrong later, we could say, well Peter is just human, we just needed to accept his words about Christ. [quote name='KnightofChrist' timestamp='1294627369' post='2198445'] Jesus is more important than Scripture. Scripture is the written word of God where as Christ is the Word of God. [/quote] Remember my priority list. Jesus Christ first, Scripture second, all the things of this Earth (including tradition) third! Edited January 10, 2011 by MarkKurallSchuenemann Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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