MarkKurallSchuenemann Posted January 9, 2011 Share Posted January 9, 2011 [quote name='KnightofChrist' timestamp='1294603744' post='2198239'] I do indeed agree with all of those truths. I agree with those passages as well, but that doesn't make you Peter, you still don't have the keys to bind and loose. You don't answer may questions towards you. How can you have the keys to bind and loose and not some other Christian who disagrees with you on a subject and that not be contradictory? There is a difference between us, you teach a different gospel than Christ taught, He gave the Keys to bind and loose to Peter who held the office of Pope. Not to you. [/quote] Actually, I was just using Hyperobole there. You're right. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KnightofChrist Posted January 9, 2011 Share Posted January 9, 2011 [quote name='MarkKurallSchuenemann' timestamp='1294603605' post='2198234'] Like I said, this forum is in desperate need for new ideas to be presented because you guys have become xenophobic in what is discussed here! [/quote] We love the challenge, but of course you can't complain when your arguments are countered. Truth is worth fighting for it is even worth dieing for, I know no greater truth than that of Jesus Christ taught to me by Holy Mother Church. You may try if you must to challenge the Truths given to her by Christ, but don't believe we will just relent and give in without a fight, for what is right. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarkKurallSchuenemann Posted January 9, 2011 Share Posted January 9, 2011 [quote name='KnightofChrist' timestamp='1294604207' post='2198243'] We love the challenge, but of course you can't complain when your arguments are countered. Truth is worth fighting for it is even worth dieing for, I know no greater truth than that of Jesus Christ taught to me by Holy Mother Church. You may try if you must to challenge the Truths given to her by Christ, but don't believe we will just relent and give in without a fight, for what is right. [/quote] I invite it, as it strengthens the faith Christ has also shown me. Like I said brother, we are not so different! What I do not want, of course, is the hunker down in the trenches, you are wrong silly responses that some people give - I want thoughtful ones that I can appreciate! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HisChildForever Posted January 9, 2011 Share Posted January 9, 2011 [quote name='MarkKurallSchuenemann' timestamp='1294604439' post='2198248'] I invite it, as it strengthens the faith Christ has also shown me. Like I said brother, we are not so different! What I do not want, of course, is the hunker down in the trenches, you are wrong silly responses that some people give - I want thoughtful ones that I can appreciate! [/quote] I pray it leads you to the Catholic Church. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lil Red Posted January 9, 2011 Share Posted January 9, 2011 [quote name='HisChildForever' timestamp='1294604499' post='2198251'] I pray it leads you to the Catholic Church. [/quote] seconded.[quote name='MarkKurallSchuenemann' timestamp='1294604439' post='2198248'] I invite it, as it strengthens the faith Christ has also shown me. Like I said brother, we are not so different! What I do not want, of course, is the hunker down in the trenches, you are wrong silly responses that some people give - I want thoughtful ones that I can appreciate! [/quote] i am being silly in response to the silliness you post. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarkKurallSchuenemann Posted January 9, 2011 Share Posted January 9, 2011 [quote name='Lil Red' timestamp='1294604698' post='2198254'] seconded. i am being silly in response to the silliness you post. [/quote] LOL. Thanks, I enjoyed that! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr.Cat Posted January 9, 2011 Share Posted January 9, 2011 [quote name='Lil Red' timestamp='1294604698' post='2198254']i am being silly in response to the silliness you post.[/quote] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Archaeology cat Posted January 9, 2011 Share Posted January 9, 2011 *disclaimer - haven't read all the intervening posts* [quote name='MarkKurallSchuenemann' timestamp='1294593823' post='2198165'] I would like to point out, you said your traditions are corroborated by the Bible, and history. Well, doesn't that mean you just said, if your sacred traditions weren't part of the Bible, than you would have to throw them out! I have to disagree with you on the discernment of another's heart, as God does give the gift of discernment of spirits. Or are you saying any con-man can come up to you and say, hey dude, give me 3,000 dollars and I will turn it into a 1,000,000 for you, and you would actually give them that money. If you wouldn't, and I hope you wouldn't, then you have proved you have the ability to discern another person's heart and another person's spirit! Those types of things are always one part spiritual, you can feel in your gut that what someone is saying isn't right, and one part knowledge of the bible! Though, with what I see in the world today, I do see a lack of people using the discernment of spirits - or why would there be 1.1 billion atheists and agnostics in this world. [/quote] I apologise if I wasn't clear. When I said following Tradition is corroborated by Scripture, I did not mean that every particular Tradition is explicitly stated in Scripture, but that the concept of following oral Tradition and not just Scripture is given in the Bible (2 Thes 2). We can know if a person's actions conform to what God wills, but I cannot see their heart. I did speak too hastily earlier, though, because I do know that some Saints have been given the gift to read consciences. St Padre Pio comes to mind. So I apologise for misspeaking. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Papist Posted January 9, 2011 Share Posted January 9, 2011 [quote name='MarkKurallSchuenemann' timestamp='1294545368' post='2197960'] Only scripture can intrepret scripture. [b]No human being can[/b], only God through him illuminating your mind by reading the scripture - and then you get a revelation. [/quote] Ok. You and I live as only scripture can interpret scripture. However, what if you and I come up with a different interpretation? If you are right, by what authority are you right? If I am right, by what authority am I right? How do we resolve this? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Papist Posted January 9, 2011 Share Posted January 9, 2011 [quote name='MarkKurallSchuenemann' timestamp='1294546253' post='2197972'] True, but you must always judge that with what the apostles taught. Every spiritual teaching has a spirit attached to it (hence why Christ said, you are either for me or against me). So we must always go back to what the apostles said when someone is teaching us. Fortunately, we have a great document to do that with - the Bible, because it is an accurate document that we can point to and say, the apostles said Jesus said this, and the apostles said Jesus said that, so I will stand by the Jesus the apostles preached! [/quote] Are suggesting that after the last apostle died, Truth stoppped being revealed[ie no more the teaching authority on earth]? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Papist Posted January 9, 2011 Share Posted January 9, 2011 [quote name='MarkKurallSchuenemann' timestamp='1294601615' post='2198206'] I disagree that it has to be interpreted in light of the teachings of men, and you are taking a huge leap of faith in saying that it is protected by God. Where's your proof that all teachings of the Catholic faith has been blanketed by God? What I am saying there should be a hierachy of their spiritual priorities. Jesus first. Scripture second, traditions of men third. According to wise men who were also lead by the holy spirit, our law makers say that written and visual (like photographs and videos) proof is far greater evidence than someone's word, shouldn't scripture also be far greater evidence of what Jesus said than what some man says - and therefore we should trust what Jesus said in scripture more than what one person says Jesus told them? [/quote] Do you not believe that the Bible is the Word of God? If so, why? The Bible was written by men. Would you not be taking a huge leap of faith in saying that it is protected by God? Just as the Bible is the inspired Word of God, the Church has the Holy Spirit inspiring Her to the end. If not, Jesus either lied or failed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarkKurallSchuenemann Posted January 9, 2011 Share Posted January 9, 2011 [quote name='Papist' timestamp='1294608022' post='2198305'] Ok. You and I live as only scripture can interpret scripture. However, what if you and I come up with a different interpretation? If you are right, by what authority are you right? If I am right, by what authority am I right? How do we resolve this? [/quote] On inconsequential things - like lets say, did Mary and Joseph have a sex life together - it doesn't matter to me in the slightest - I would simply go - well, if you don't believe that, that's okay, but it doesn't matter to me - the fact Mary brought Jesus into our world does matter, and it should matter to you, I hope, but whether or not the above was happening is inconsequential. Now, you might say, hey that isn't inconsequential, I'm offended that doesn't matter to you, but lets be honest, if everybody thought it was inconsequential, you can believe if she did or did not - then there division between us would be removed. We should hold unto core truths, that we both believe in the works of Jesus Christ, that Jesus was sent to a dying world to breathe new life into it, so that anybody who believes him, and listens and acts in according to the words he says, than we are all bothers and sisters in Christ - and according to Jesus, we are all the same in his eyes. He told the apostles that if someone preaches in his name, and casts out devils, but is not part of them, they shouldn't forbid him, because if he or she isn't against them then they are for them. I don't see you as a Catholic, but as a Christian. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HisChildForever Posted January 9, 2011 Share Posted January 9, 2011 [quote name='MarkKurallSchuenemann' timestamp='1294613975' post='2198343'] On inconsequential things - like lets say, did Mary and Joseph have a sex life together - it doesn't matter to me in the slightest - I would simply go - well, if you don't believe that, that's okay, but it doesn't matter to me - the fact Mary brought Jesus into our world does matter, and it should matter to you, I hope, but whether or not the above was happening is inconsequential. Now, you might say, hey that isn't inconsequential, I'm offended that doesn't matter to you, but lets be honest, if everybody thought it was inconsequential, you can believe if she did or did not - then there division between us would be removed. [/quote] Christianity would be better if the Blessed Virgin was properly honored. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Papist Posted January 10, 2011 Share Posted January 10, 2011 [quote name='HisChildForever' timestamp='1294616845' post='2198358'] Christianity would be better if the Blessed Virgin was properly honored. [/quote] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Papist Posted January 10, 2011 Share Posted January 10, 2011 [quote name='MarkKurallSchuenemann' timestamp='1294613975' post='2198343'] On inconsequential things - like lets say, did Mary and Joseph have a sex life together - it doesn't matter to me in the slightest - I would simply go - well, if you don't believe that, that's okay, but it doesn't matter to me - the fact Mary brought Jesus into our world does matter, and it should matter to you, I hope, but whether or not the above was happening is inconsequential. Now, you might say, hey that isn't inconsequential, I'm offended that doesn't matter to you, but lets be honest, if everybody thought it was inconsequential, you can believe if she did or did not - then there division between us would be removed. We should hold unto core truths, that we both believe in the works of Jesus Christ, that Jesus was sent to a dying world to breathe new life into it, so that anybody who believes him, and listens and acts in according to the words he says, than we are all bothers and sisters in Christ - and according to Jesus, we are all the same in his eyes. He told the apostles that if someone preaches in his name, and casts out devils, but is not part of them, they shouldn't forbid him, because if he or she isn't against them then they are for them. I don't see you as a Catholic, but as a Christian. [/quote] Ok. Then who is the authority on deciding which is and is not inconsequential? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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