KnightofChrist Posted January 9, 2011 Share Posted January 9, 2011 St. Matthew recorded the truth that the Church is protected by God. "I say to thee: That thou art Peter; and upon this rock I will build my church, and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it. And I will give to thee the keys of the kingdom of heaven. And whatsoever thou shalt bind upon earth, it shall be bound also in heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt loose upon earth, it shall be loosed also in heaven." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KnightofChrist Posted January 9, 2011 Share Posted January 9, 2011 (edited) [quote name='MarkKurallSchuenemann' timestamp='1294601615' post='2198206'] What I am saying there should be a hierachy of their spiritual priorities. Jesus first. Scripture second, traditions of men third. According to wise men who were also lead by the holy spirit, our law makers say that written and visual proof is far greater evidence than someone's word, shouldn't scripture also be far greater evidence of what Jesus said than what some man says - and therefore we should trust what Jesus said in scripture more than what one person says Jesus told them? [/quote] But much of the Bible was first passed down by word, part of Sacred Tradition. Only later was it written down. The Church is the Body of Christ. Christ is the Head, and Sacred Tradition and Sacred Scripture are like two lungs of the Body. Edited January 9, 2011 by KnightofChrist Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarkKurallSchuenemann Posted January 9, 2011 Share Posted January 9, 2011 (edited) [quote name='KnightofChrist' timestamp='1294602017' post='2198209'] St. Matthew recorded the truth that the Church is protected by God. "I say to thee: That thou art Peter; and upon this rock I will build my church, and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it. And I will give to thee the keys of the kingdom of heaven. And whatsoever thou shalt bind upon earth, it shall be bound also in heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt loose upon earth, it shall be loosed also in heaven." [/quote] I trust what Jesus says and I say that Jesus Christ is the son of the living God. That means the keys have also been given to me, and to every single other person who believes Jesus Christ is the son of the living God! And trust me when I say I am a rock. I would die for Christ, because Christ is so much more important than I am! Edited January 9, 2011 by MarkKurallSchuenemann Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HisChildForever Posted January 9, 2011 Share Posted January 9, 2011 [quote name='MarkKurallSchuenemann' timestamp='1294602261' post='2198212'] That means the keys have also been given to me, [/quote] The Holy Father joined Phatmass? News to me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KnightofChrist Posted January 9, 2011 Share Posted January 9, 2011 [quote name='MarkKurallSchuenemann' timestamp='1294602261' post='2198212'] I trust what Jesus says and I say that Jesus Christ is the son of the living God. That means the keys have also been given to me, and to every single other person who believes Jesus Christ is the son of the living God! And trust me when I say I am a rock. I would die for Christ, because Christ is so much more important than I am! [/quote] You are not Peter, you may have a strong faith and humbly sacrifice your life for Christ, but you are not Peter you are not the Pope. You have not been given the Keys to bind and loose. If you have then so have others. If you say X is true someone else can say X is false, but since both of you have the power to bind and loose, which is right? Only the devil is so contradictory. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarkKurallSchuenemann Posted January 9, 2011 Share Posted January 9, 2011 [quote name='KnightofChrist' timestamp='1294602195' post='2198211'] But much of the Bible was first passed down by word, part of Sacred Tradition. Only later was it written down. The Church is the Body of Christ. Christ is the Head, and Sacred Tradition and Sacred Scripture are like two lungs of the Body. [/quote] I agree the church is the Body of Christ - it's just our ideas of what constitutes that is different (and trust me, Arby's is right about this while we debate, different is GOOD!). God never said in scripture, and I am sure there isn't a catholic teaching saying the two lungs of the body is Scripture and Tradition, so that is your opinion. I'm glad you shared that opinion, but I still say that scripture allows us to discern what God's will for our lives is, and if what someone says is of God or not, and therefore it is far more important as a document than you would agree too. But it is just a living document, our constitution, if you may, saying what are rights and obligations are to God! Jesus comes first, Scripture comes second, and traditions of men come third. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HisChildForever Posted January 9, 2011 Share Posted January 9, 2011 [quote name='MarkKurallSchuenemann' timestamp='1294601615' post='2198206'] I disagree that it has to be interpreted in light of the teachings of men, and you are taking a huge leap of faith in saying that it is protected by God. Where's your proof that all teachings of the Catholic faith has been blanketed by God? [/quote] The Scriptures are interpreted in light of the Holy Catholic Church, established by Jesus Christ Himself, as is recorded in the Holy Scriptures - my "proof" comes from the mouth of Jesus Christ Himself (see the Scriptural reference provided by Knight). Christ promised us that the "gates of Hell" would not prevail against the Holy Church. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HisChildForever Posted January 9, 2011 Share Posted January 9, 2011 [quote name='MarkKurallSchuenemann' timestamp='1294602713' post='2198219'] I agree the church is the Body of Christ - it's just our ideas of what constitutes that is different (and trust me, Arby's is right about this while we debate, different is GOOD!). God never said in scripture, and I am sure there isn't a catholic teaching saying the two lungs of the body is Scripture and Tradition, so that is your opinion. I'm glad you shared that opinion, but I still say that scripture allows us to discern what God's will for our lives is, and if what someone says is of God or not, and therefore it is far more important as a document than you would agree too. But it is just a living document, our constitution, if you may, saying what are rights and obligations are to God! Jesus comes first, Scripture comes second, and traditions of men come third. [/quote] You have absolutely no authority on this matter. Everything you say or preach is completely subjective according to your interpretations and opinions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarkKurallSchuenemann Posted January 9, 2011 Share Posted January 9, 2011 [quote name='KnightofChrist' timestamp='1294602703' post='2198218'] You are not Peter, you may have a strong faith and humbly sacrifice your life for Christ, but you are not Peter you are not the Pope. You have not been given the Keys to bind and loose. If you have then so have others. If you say X is true someone else can say X is false, but since both of you have the power to bind and loose, which is right? Only the devil is so contradictory. [/quote] Do we not both agree that Jesus is the son of the living God? Do we not both agree that Jesus died for our sins? Do we not both agree that Jesus is far better than either of us? Do we both not agree that humble service towards God is important for someone's life? if we both agree with those things, here is what Jesus says to you and the sarcastic person above you. [quote]Mark 9:38-40 And John answered him, saying, Master, we saw one casting out devils in thy name, and he followeth not us: and we forbad him, because he followeth not us. But Jesus said, Forbid him not: for there is no man which shall do a miracle in my name, that can lightly speak evil of me. For he that is not against us is on our part.[/quote] And [sup][/sup][quote]Luke 9:49-50 And John answered and said, Master, we saw one casting out devils in thy name; and we forbad him, because he followeth not with us. And Jesus said unto him, Forbid him not: for he that is not against us is for us.[/quote] Since this is repented twice in scripture, I think God was trying to tell us something. It doesn't matter which 'organization' we belong to, as long as we are doing the lord's work it's alright with him, and he see's no difference between us! The only person who see's a difference between us is, well you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KnightofChrist Posted January 9, 2011 Share Posted January 9, 2011 [quote name='MarkKurallSchuenemann' timestamp='1294602713' post='2198219'] I agree the church is the Body of Christ - it's just our ideas of what constitutes that is different (and trust me, Arby's is right about this while we debate, different is GOOD!). God never said in scripture, and I am sure there isn't a catholic teaching saying the two lungs of the body is Scripture and Tradition, so that is your opinion. I'm glad you shared that opinion, but I still say that scripture allows us to discern what God's will for our lives is, and if what someone says is of God or not, and therefore it is far more important as a document than you would agree too. But it is just a living document, our constitution, if you may, saying what are rights and obligations are to God! Jesus comes first, Scripture comes second, and traditions of men come third. [/quote] Sacred Scripture and Sacred Tradition complement each other, like to lungs in a body. Example the Scriptures teach the truth of the Holy Trinity, and Sacred Tradition defines the word and the teaching of the Holy Trinity. Living Document? I don't like that phrase Liberals use that phrase so they can make documents like the Constitution and the Bible say what ever the heck they want it to say. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lil Red Posted January 9, 2011 Share Posted January 9, 2011 [quote name='HisChildForever' timestamp='1294602681' post='2198216'] The Holy Father joined Phatmass? News to me. [/quote] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HisChildForever Posted January 9, 2011 Share Posted January 9, 2011 [quote name='MarkKurallSchuenemann' timestamp='1294603083' post='2198225'] Since this is repented twice in scripture, I think God was trying to tell us something. It doesn't matter which 'organization' we belong to, as long as we are doing the lord's work it's alright with him, and he see's no difference between us! The only person who see's a difference between us is, well you. [/quote] Non-Catholic Christians are members of the Church and the body of Christ, albeit they have only partial Truth. Jesus Christ wants all His children to have the fullness of Truth, which can only be found in the Catholic Church. We are called to obedience. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarkKurallSchuenemann Posted January 9, 2011 Share Posted January 9, 2011 (edited) [quote name='Lil Red' timestamp='1294603183' post='2198228'] [/quote] I'd throw up Foamy - Forem : Borem up as a response to this, but I know it would deleted immediately. Like I said, this forum is in desperate need for new ideas to be presented because you guys have become xenophobic in what is discussed here![quote name='HisChildForever' timestamp='1294603432' post='2198232'] Non-Catholic Christians are members of the Church and the body of Christ, albeit they have only partial Truth. Jesus Christ wants all His children to have the fullness of Truth, which can only be found in the Catholic Church. We are called to obedience. [/quote] I can respect and understand that. Edited January 9, 2011 by MarkKurallSchuenemann Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HisChildForever Posted January 9, 2011 Share Posted January 9, 2011 We are Catholic Christians. We love discussion, but do not tolerate heresy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KnightofChrist Posted January 9, 2011 Share Posted January 9, 2011 [quote name='MarkKurallSchuenemann' timestamp='1294603083' post='2198225'] Do we not both agree that Jesus is the son of the living God? Do we not both agree that Jesus died for our sins? Do we not both agree that Jesus is far better than either of us? Do we both not agree that humble service towards God is important for someone's life?[/quote] I do indeed agree with all of those truths. [quote name='MarkKurallSchuenemann' timestamp='1294603083' post='2198225']if we both agree with those things, here is what Jesus says to you and the sarcastic person above you.[/quote] I agree with those passages as well, but that doesn't make you Peter, you still don't have the keys to bind and loose. [quote name='MarkKurallSchuenemann' timestamp='1294603083' post='2198225']Since this is repented twice in scripture, I think God was trying to tell us something. It doesn't matter which 'organization' we belong to, as long as we are doing the lord's work it's alright with him, and he see's no difference between us! The only person who see's a difference between us is, well you. [/quote] You don't answer may questions towards you. How can you have the keys to bind and loose and not some other Christian who disagrees with you on a subject and that not be contradictory? There is a difference between us, you teach a different gospel than Christ taught, He gave the Keys to bind and loose to Peter who held the office of Pope. Not to you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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