Ed Normile Posted January 8, 2011 Share Posted January 8, 2011 (edited) [quote name='Papist' timestamp='1294453134' post='2197705'] Yes. True. But I am referring to the omission rather than that observance. [/quote] Well so was I, I was trying to address how one could take from the bible or omit from the bible as they feel, did you see in the post before the one you quoted where I wrote " rewrote or edited " ? ed Edited January 8, 2011 by Ed Normile Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark of the Cross Posted January 8, 2011 Share Posted January 8, 2011 (edited) [quote name='thessalonian' timestamp='1294451784' post='2197698'] The bible is worse than a good book if one has an incorrect understanding of it. I.e. without the traditions of the Catholic Church it is greatly diminished in value. If one has the words in the book but an incorrect understanding of them then one is worse off. U do not have the word of God unless you have the correct understanding of the words and that only exists in its fullest form in the Catholic Church. [/quote] Amen! It's no use knowing the recipe for a cake, unless you actually make the cake and see for yourself that it is good. Edited January 8, 2011 by Mark of the Cross Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Papist Posted January 8, 2011 Share Posted January 8, 2011 (edited) [quote name='Ice_nine' timestamp='1294341739' post='2197424'] I have but it seems like a strange idea that someone could worship a Bible , but I think the sola scriptura types tend to have a shallow understanding of what worship actually is so I guess using that shallow definition you could say some people "worship" the Bible. It is a self-defeating dogma but still people cling to it. I don't know I deluded myself into believing in that concept for about 5 years. Whoops, mistake made. Lesson learned. Sure there are some beautiful truths that can be drawn from Sacred Scripture that only requires some basic literacy to understand, but to think you can interpret an ancient text with little to no working knowledge of the original languages, history, anthropology, archaeology, literary theory and all those things that people study and toil over for years and years . . . it's just naive at best and arrogant at worse. You don't need to be a scholar to enter into that mystical union with God. You do need to be a scholar, or at least rely on the commentary of other scholars to help you make sense of the Bible. So maybe some protestants are confused because, in idolizing the Bible and raising it to a god-like status, they must think that the accessibility to scripture is equal to the accessibility of God Himself. In other words when a Catholic says that an individual's interpretation of the Bible is unreliable, a protestant may think "*GASP* but God is accessible to everyone so if you say not everyone can interpret the Bible (i.e. their god) then you must be saying that only religious elites can and we're dependent on them ZOMGZ" But you see sola scripture ends up becoming elitist. Backfire. Another oopsies. A mentally disabled child may not be able to read or even communicate but perhaps such a child could know more about God than any given "learned" adult. With sola scripture that's not possible. [/random] [/quote] [font="Verdana"][size="2"]"If you believe what you like in the gospels, and reject what you don't like, it is not the gospel you believe, but yourself." -- Saint Augustine[/size][/font] Edited January 8, 2011 by Papist Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Papist Posted January 8, 2011 Share Posted January 8, 2011 [quote name='Ed Normile' timestamp='1294458765' post='2197727'] Well so was I, I was trying to address how one could take from the bible or omit from the bible as they feel, did you see in the post before the one you quoted where I wrote " rewrote or edited " ? ed [/quote] I am not disagreeing. One cannot take away or add to Sacred Scripture. I am speaking to the bible worship question. I never thought of this. Living in SC/NC, I am around many bible only christians. I never thought to think that thier bible states that the Word of God is Flesh, not the bible. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ed Normile Posted January 9, 2011 Share Posted January 9, 2011 (edited) [quote name='Papist' timestamp='1294496506' post='2197792'] I am not disagreeing. One cannot take away or add to Sacred Scripture. I am speaking to the bible worship question. I never thought of this. Living in SC/NC, I am around many bible only christians. I never thought to think that thier bible states that the Word of God is Flesh, not the bible. [/quote] Papist, first I love the name, I have actually been called a Papist several times during my life by those who used it as an insult. I am sorry if I came off as disagreeable with you, I did not mean it that way I was just trying to clarify what I wrote. I get testy here some time as I have been berated and gang attacked just for stating an opinion here and I guess I felt your post was going to be the start of another round of abuse. I see you are new here, a hint for you, do not say its not proper to drink in the consecrated ground of a catholic crypt for cardinals or you will get smacked down by the masses ! ed Edited January 9, 2011 by Ed Normile Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarkKurallSchuenemann Posted January 9, 2011 Share Posted January 9, 2011 [quote name='thessalonian' timestamp='1294251278' post='2197000'] The question is what is being worshipped? A book which could be construed as a graven image or the "superior" exegetical skills of a new Christian who hasn't likely even read the whole bible through yet, much less read it cover to cover and read commentaries by scholars. "Trust not in your own understanding proverbs 3:5 says". Protestantism says you are the only one you can trust to interpret the Bible. [/quote] Only scripture can intrepret scripture. [b]No human being can[/b], only God through him illuminating your mind by reading the scripture - and then you get a revelation. Let me prove this. [quote]Provers 1:7 The [b]fear[/b] of the [b]LORD[/b] is the beginning of knowledge: but geniuses despise wisdom and instruction.[/quote] Later we get [quote]Proverbs 3:7 Be not wise in thine own eyes: [b]fear[/b] the [b]LORD[/b], and depart from evil.[/quote] [quote] Proverbs 8:13 The [b]fear[/b] of the [b]LORD[/b] is to hate evil: pride, and arrogancy, and the evil way, and the froward mouth, do I hate.[/quote] So, I can be fairly certain, when Christians talk about fearing the lord, it is really about hating evil, which is boiled down to thinking your are too important, and not being humble. On facebook, I replied to this post - [quote][size="4"]"His pleasure is not in the strength of the horse, nor his delight in the legs of the warrior; the LORD delights in those who fear him, who put their hope in his unfailing love." Psalm 147:10-11.......What does it mean to "Fear God" ?...post your replies here:[/size][/quote] [b][size="4"][/size][/b] this way - I've always interpret scripture with scripture. The fear of the LORD is to hate evil: pride, and arrogancy, and the evil way, and the froward mouth, do I hate. Proverbs 8:13 IOW, always remain humble before God. Warriors can boast in their victories, and men who have fast and strong horses can brag about how many Kentucky Derbies they have won, but a real man and woman of God will know, none of that really matters - only knowing Christ matters! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Winchester Posted January 9, 2011 Author Share Posted January 9, 2011 Like I've said before: Literacy is required for salvation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarkKurallSchuenemann Posted January 9, 2011 Share Posted January 9, 2011 (edited) [quote name='Winchester' timestamp='1294545609' post='2197962'] Like I've said before: Literacy is required for salvation. [/quote] No, just that you listen, believe, and follow according to what you have been taught by scripture. LOL! You're the funniest debater ever! I'm saying only scripture can interpret scripture. Don't trust another human being, well, ever! Always evaluate what is being told to you based upon the faith that you have been taught by the apostles! Edited January 9, 2011 by MarkKurallSchuenemann Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Winchester Posted January 9, 2011 Author Share Posted January 9, 2011 [quote name='MarkKurallSchuenemann' timestamp='1294545901' post='2197967'] No, just that you listen, believe, and follow according to what you have been taught by scripture. LOL! You're the funniest debater ever! [/quote] In scriptures, that adherence isn't limited to what's written down. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarkKurallSchuenemann Posted January 9, 2011 Share Posted January 9, 2011 [quote name='Winchester' timestamp='1294545977' post='2197971'] In scriptures, that adherence isn't limited to what's written down. [/quote] True, but you must always judge that with what the apostles taught. Every spiritual teaching has a spirit attached to it (hence why Christ said, you are either for me or against me). So we must always go back to what the apostles said when someone is teaching us. Fortunately, we have a great document to do that with - the Bible, because it is an accurate document that we can point to and say, the apostles said Jesus said this, and the apostles said Jesus said that, so I will stand by the Jesus the apostles preached! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cmotherofpirl Posted January 9, 2011 Share Posted January 9, 2011 [quote name='MarkKurallSchuenemann' timestamp='1294546253' post='2197972'] True, but you must always judge that with what the apostles taught. Every spiritual teaching has a spirit attached to it (hence why Christ said, you are either for me or against me). So we must always go back to what the apostles said when someone is teaching us. Fortunately, we have a great document to do that with - the Bible, because it is an accurate document that we can point to and say, the apostles said Jesus said this, and the apostles said Jesus said that, so I will stand by the Jesus the apostles preached! [/quote] However, not everything done by the Apostles and Evangelists is in Scripture. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ed Normile Posted January 9, 2011 Share Posted January 9, 2011 [quote name='MarkKurallSchuenemann' timestamp='1294545901' post='2197967'] No, just that you listen, believe, and follow according to what you have been taught by scripture. LOL! You're the funniest debater ever! I'm saying only scripture can interpret scripture. [b]Don't trust another human being, well, ever[/b]! Always evaluate what is being told to you based upon the faith that you have been taught by the apostles! [/quote] So I guess you would have been among those who rejected Jesus at the time? Afterall he was a human being during his ministry and although the OT foretold his coming it never said when he would come., and of course you would have to had evaluated what you wre told based upon the lessons you were taught by the prophets. ed Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarkKurallSchuenemann Posted January 9, 2011 Share Posted January 9, 2011 [quote name='cmotherofpirl' timestamp='1294552820' post='2198032'] However, not everything done by the Apostles and Evangelists is in Scripture. [/quote] Then, how do we discern things? If there is secret information that has been witheld by anybody, that means someone can just make stuff up and say, you can't say it's wrong because you don't know everything! Just be a good slave and do what I say, and everything will be fine. I own you, don't think for yourselves, just do what I say and do, because I have all the knowledge and you're just ignorant creatons who need to be told how to think, what to do, and how to behave. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarkKurallSchuenemann Posted January 9, 2011 Share Posted January 9, 2011 [quote name='Ed Normile' timestamp='1294553675' post='2198040'] So I guess you would have been among those who rejected Jesus at the time? Afterall he was a human being during his ministry and although the OT foretold his coming it never said when he would come., and of course you would have to had evaluated what you wre told based upon the lessons you were taught by the prophets. ed [/quote] Well, if you want to think that, that's your prerogative. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Archaeology cat Posted January 9, 2011 Share Posted January 9, 2011 [quote name='MarkKurallSchuenemann' timestamp='1294554229' post='2198045'] Then, how do we discern things? If there is secret information that has been witheld by anybody, that means someone can just make stuff up and say, you can't say it's wrong because you don't know everything! Just be a good slave and do what I say, and everything will be fine. I own you, don't think for yourselves, just do what I say and do, because I have all the knowledge and you're just ignorant creatons who need to be told how to think, what to do, and how to behave. [/quote] We go to the Church Jesus left us (Matthew 16). This isn't secret information, but is the teaching of the Apostles, prior to the writing of the NT and canonising of the Bible as a whole. Even Paul instructed the early Christians to hold fast to his teachings, whether written or oral (2 Thes 2). God bless Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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