Is 'popular Christianity' Too Self-Centered?

[southern california guy]

Popular Christians argue that we are saved by faith and not by deed. I've heard it argued that we are not saved by the law but rather by grace. However... Jesus Christ -- when asked about salvation -- did not talk about grace or belief, instead he focused on the Jewish law:

[i][color="#FF0000"]"What is written in the law? How do you read it?"
[/color]
He said in reply, "You shall love the Lord, your God, with all your heart, with all your being, with all your strength, and with all your mind, and your neighbor as yourself.[/i]

The man asked Jesus to clarify who this 'neighbor' was and Jesus told the story of the good Samaritan. I find it interesting that he chose to use a man of the Samaritan religion as an example. The Samaritan's don't share the same faith or beliefs so obviously Jesus was focusing purely upon the Samaritans deeds. The Samaritan wasn't thinking about himself he was thinking about his neighbor who was hurt and needed help.

[i] [color="#FF0000"] "Which of these three, in your opinion, was neighbor to the robbers' victim?[/color]"

He answered, "The one who treated him with mercy." Jesus said to him, [color="#FF0000"]"[b]Go and do likewise.[/b]"[/color]
[/i]
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So isn't the modern Christian argument -- that we're saved by faith rather than deeds -- a bit more of an "It's all about me" argument?

[b] If [b]I[/b] think the right thing than[b] I[/b] will go to heaven -- and that's all that matters! [/b]

The Samaritan wasn't focusing on himself -- but it's harder to do what he did than what the two Jews did. It seems like modern Christians are taking the easy way out when they argue that faith without deeds is not only possible -- but it is the secret to salvation.

Jesus seems to be arguing against a self-centered approach in Matthew chapter ten.

[i][color="#FF0000"]Whoever finds his life will lose it, and whoever loses his life for my sake will find it.

"Whoever receives you receives me, and whoever receives me receives the one who sent me.

Whoever receives a prophet because he is a prophet will receive a prophet's reward, and whoever receives a righteous man because he is righteous will receive a righteous man's reward.

And whoever gives only a cup of cold water to one of these little ones to drink because he is a disciple--amen, I say to you, he will surely not lose his reward."[/color]
[/i]

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[i][b][color="#FF0000"]Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father who is in heaven[/color][/b][/i]

Edited January 3, 2011 by southern california guy

[MarkKurallSchuenemann]

Popular Christianity is too self-centered. Take the part of the Bible -

[quote]
Matthew 7:22-24

Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works? [sup][/sup]And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.

Therefore whosoever heareth these sayings of mine, and doeth them, I will liken him unto a wise man, which built his house upon a rock:[/quote]



Notice how these people who Jesus says, I never knew you talked to him like. Didn't I do this, or that, and this wonderful work, like what they were doing meant anything. No, Jesus means everything.

Have I experienced God doing some miraculous things in my life, yes, I have, and each time, I am blessed with an even greater understanding of who God is and his grace in my life. But I mean nothing, nothing I do amounts to anything but dung compared to what Jesus Christ did on the cross for all of us! He's the one who deserves praise and worship, because he lived and died for us and then rose forever more!

[Ed Normile]

[quote name='MarkKurallSchuenemann' timestamp='1294540068' post='2197932']
Popular Christianity is too self-centered. Take the part of the Bible -





Notice how these people who Jesus says, I never knew you talked to him like. Didn't I do this, or that, and this wonderful work, like what they were doing meant anything. No, Jesus means everything.

Have I experienced God doing some miraculous things in my life, yes, I have, and each time, I am blessed with an even greater understanding of who God is and his grace in my life. But I mean nothing, nothing I do amounts to anything but dung compared to what Jesus Christ did on the cross for all of us! He's the one who deserves praise and worship, because he lived and died for us and then rose forever more!
[/quote]

I think that passage has to do with those who seek recognition for their works not those who do good quitely as that what Jesus would want.

ed

[MarkKurallSchuenemann]

[quote name='Ed Normile' timestamp='1294543934' post='2197951']
I think that passage has to do with those who seek recognition for their works not those who do good quitely as that what Jesus would want.

ed
[/quote]

I totally agree with you with that.

We all have a path that God wants us to go down, but we shouldn't glorify ourselves on that path.

If you are living the faith Christ laid down for us, then you will be doing a work for him. But that work is done by him. The apostles went about to teach the people after Christ gave the great commission, but Christ went with them to do wonders accordingly.

[quote]Mark 16:17-20

And these signs shall follow them that believe; In my name shall they cast out devils; they shall speak with new tongues; They shall take up serpents; and if they drink any deadly thing, it shall not hurt them; they shall lay hands on the sick, and they shall recover.

So then after the Lord had spoken unto them, he was received up into heaven, and sat on the right hand of God.

And they went forth, and preached every where, the Lord working with them, and confirming the word with signs following. Amen.[/quote]

I've cast out some devils, in my time, and I've crushed some serpents under my foot (not the snake variety, though some would call them snakes because they are evil, and I've been through hell and back again - but I know that I am not doing any of those things, it's the Lord, and I would do anything for Jesus, because he did do everything for me, including laying his own life down!

[Lil Red]

Praise the Lord and pass the ammunition!

[MarkKurallSchuenemann]

[quote name='Lil Red' timestamp='1294545499' post='2197961']
Praise the Lord and pass the ammunition!
[/quote]

[Lil Red]

[quote name='MarkKurallSchuenemann' timestamp='1294547163' post='2197985']

[/quote]
you sound very 'on fire', like a preacher you see on tv. i wanted to join in.

[MarkKurallSchuenemann]

[quote name='Lil Red' timestamp='1294547930' post='2197991']
you sound very 'on fire', like a preacher you see on tv. i wanted to join in.
[/quote]

On fire for Jesus, yes, not big on the guns and ammo stuff, except for self-defense.

It's okay to be on fire for Jesus, just as long as it is the Jesus the apostles preach, and not the one that is being presented in America right now, where if you give money to Televangelist A, than God will bless you with a million dollars, and do be a good boy and kill a bunch of people in another country because we say those people are evil and need to be killed or converted!

[Lil Red]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Praise_the_Lord_and_Pass_the_Ammunition

[MarkKurallSchuenemann]

[quote name='Lil Red' timestamp='1294549574' post='2198003']
[url="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Praise_the_Lord_and_Pass_the_Ammunition"]http://en.wikipedia. ..._the_Ammunition[/url]
[/quote]

Although wiki is a weak source, that was some very interesting info there!

[AudreyGrace]

I watched a televangelist once, and he preached about the 3 things that would make the rest of your year, the best of your year. He talked about giving, but to expect God's blessings in return. In other words, give to be blessed. This disturbed me... after all, if we are to be true Christians, the giving would be our blessing. It should be an honor to give what we have in order to do God's will. Jesus gave all of himself and didn't expect anything in return. Same thing goes for Mary. In this case, I'd say that alot of "popular Christianity" is very self centered.

Also, I know alot of Christians who neglect and judge others because of their sins. They are afraid to have mixed company. However, true Christianity is about spreading God's love to anyone and everyone. Jesus ate with tax collectors, hung out with a prostitute, etc. He didn't care about his image, and He ended up just fine. It seems like "popular Christians" care about their own happiness and being content in their own way of life rather than giving all of themselves to everyone they come across, not for God's glory, but for their own. Selfishness.

Oh, and I do understand that there are alot of non-Catholics out there who aren't selfish. I was just talking about the majority that I've come in contact with.

[BigJon16]

I was watching one of the random christian TV stations in my area and they had a musician on, whom I've never heard of. After he performed the host of the show interviewed him and all he did was brag about himself, his music and how much more "faith" he has than others, but not once did he give a testimony of how great God is. And isn't the point of music ministry to lift up and glorify God? It was very aggravating. He seemed very self centered and seemed to care more about the popularity his music got him, instead of ministering His Word through music.

It's all supposed to glorify Him, yet all this guy did was glorify himself.

--Big Jon

[MarkKurallSchuenemann]

[quote name='AudreyGrace' timestamp='1294689668' post='2198675']
I watched a televangelist once, and he preached about the 3 things that would make the rest of your year, the best of your year. He talked about giving, but to expect God's blessings in return. In other words, give to be blessed. This disturbed me... after all, if we are to be true Christians, the giving would be our blessing. It should be an honor to give what we have in order to do God's will. Jesus gave all of himself and didn't expect anything in return. Same thing goes for Mary. In this case, I'd say that alot of "popular Christianity" is very self centered.

Also, I know alot of Christians who neglect and judge others because of their sins. They are afraid to have mixed company. However, true Christianity is about spreading God's love to anyone and everyone. Jesus ate with tax collectors, hung out with a prostitute, etc. He didn't care about his image, and He ended up just fine. It seems like "popular Christians" care about their own happiness and being content in their own way of life rather than giving all of themselves to everyone they come across, not for God's glory, but for their own. Selfishness.

Oh, and I do understand that there are alot of non-Catholics out there who aren't selfish. I was just talking about the majority that I've come in contact with.
[/quote]

It's the human heart really, and unfortunately, the blind are leading the blind right now.

I made mention of this before, those who preach the prosperity gospel may have a 'grivieous sin', but those who listen and believe it as well are also in sin.

Now, I know the Catholic Church has this thing about poverty - not going out and trying to financially wealthy - and that's okay for some. I do reject this to some point. If you can be a business leader who can provide jobs for 400-500 people because you come up with outstanding ideas, I think it is a sin to live below that potential, because I think you become like the person who was given a talent and hid it. If you have the capability, go for it, but realize, no matter how successful you do become, that success is pale in comparison to what Jesus Christ did on the cross - give it it's proper place in your attitude.

And the whole witnessing thing, yes you are completely right. That is probably one the reasons why I find God bring many homosexuals into my life as friends, and that I care so much about them. I know it's because my witness will one day move their hearts to giving their lives fully to God, I just have to trust that is why he brings so many amazing people like that into my life!

[AudreyGrace]

[quote name='MarkKurallSchuenemann' timestamp='1294708895' post='2198781']
It's the human heart really, and unfortunately, the blind are leading the blind right now.

I made mention of this before, those who preach the prosperity gospel may have a 'grivieous sin', but those who listen and believe it as well are also in sin.

Now, I know the Catholic Church has this thing about poverty - not going out and trying to financially wealthy - and that's okay for some. I do reject this to some point. If you can be a business leader who can provide jobs for 400-500 people because you come up with outstanding ideas, I think it is a sin to live below that potential, because I think you become like the person who was given a talent and hid it. If you have the capability, go for it, but realize, no matter how successful you do become, that success is pale in comparison to what Jesus Christ did on the cross - give it it's proper place in your attitude.

And the whole witnessing thing, yes you are completely right. That is probably one the reasons why I find God bring many homosexuals into my life as friends, and that I care so much about them. I know it's because my witness will one day move their hearts to giving their lives fully to God, I just have to trust that is why he brings so many amazing people like that into my life!
[/quote]


It's not necessarily that the Catholic Church is against being wealthy- it's against being wealthy and keeping it all to yourself. I hope to someday be very successful, but so I can take care of my family and support others too. You can be wealthy without being "wealthy".

I have homosexual friends too... it's hard because sometimes they don't want to hear my message, but they still hang around me just as much. Just pray and keep the faith in remembering that God is working in their lives. Like St. Francis said, "Preach the Gospel at all times; if necessary, use words."

[Ice_nine]

I would say the percentage of people who actually believe the tripe modern televangelists preach is relatively small. They seem to get the most attention because most of their bs is inflammatory, elitist, or just really really dumb . . . and unfortunately that makes for good entertainment.

So if this is the "popular Christianity" you speak of than yes it is self-centered and very un-Christian, but I don't think it's a pandemic or anything. It's a shame that anyone, even if it's not a large amount, is led astray by their erroneous teachings. I was duped by this bull a few years ago. Embarrassing adolescent phase:rolleyes:.