Bomb Hits Egypt Church At New Year's Mass, 21 Dead

[KnightofChrist]

[quote name='KnightofChrist' timestamp='1294267185' post='2197171']
He is asking that God's will be done, he is asking that God bring down judgment upon the wicked, because get this it is God's will. I pray just as he does, and there is no sin in that. I also pray as Abraham did for Sodom. [b]I do not pray "God please kill this or that sinner"[/b], I do however pray that God brings justice upon the wicked who do not repent. Because it is God's will for such people. [b]I do not pray "God please kill this or that sinner. [/b]I instead pray for the day when God destroys and throws the wicked, Satan and all his angels into the pits of hell. That day when it comes will be a good and blessed day, and I pray for that day to come quickly. Because I pray for our Blessed Lord to come quickly, as does the scriptures, for it will mean that God will wipe away ever tear of the faithful, and all of the faithful will live with God in His presence forever and ever.
[/quote]

[Mr.Cat]

You don't play the semantics game well, you shouldn't try, why do you resist agreeing with your friend?

[Sternhauser]

[b][quote]I do not pray "God please kill this or that sinner"[/quote]

Do you pray, "God, please kill all them sinners what need killin'?"

~Sternhauser
[/b]

[KnightofChrist]

[quote name='HisChildForever' timestamp='1294265798' post='2197147']
I already stated that I do not, and I have never, prayed for the death of a human being. I also distinguished between praying for the death of a human being and praying for God's Will to be done. Only a sick person would pray for the death of another.
[/quote]

Agreed.

[quote name='HisChildForever' timestamp='1294266129' post='2197152']
The last words of the Psalm read "the Lord our God will destroy them". The Lord will met out justice on unrepentant sinners, not the faithful.
[/quote]

Agreed.


[quote name='HisChildForever' timestamp='1294266284' post='2197155']
Do you really believe that he prays for the death of unrepentant sinners?
[/quote]


I pray that God's will be done.


[quote name='HisChildForever' timestamp='1294266478' post='2197158']
He most certainly does not pray for the death of another human being. He is a faithful Catholic, not a Westboro lunatic.
[/quote]

I pray that God's will be done. And agreed.

[quote name='HisChildForever' timestamp='1294266682' post='2197165']
He humbly submits himself to the fact that unrepentant sinners will be punished. He does not get on his knees and pray that God smite so-and-so.
[/quote]

Agreed, of course I said [b]I do not pray "God please kill this or that sinner"[/b], but that was not good enough for he who has self appointed himself the judge of our hearts.


[quote name='HisChildForever' timestamp='1294266751' post='2197168']
Personally, I pray that God shower His mercy on the world because He knows we desperately need it.
[/quote]

I agree, of course.

[Mr.Cat]

[quote name='KnightofChrist' timestamp='1294267977' post='2197179']I pray that God's will be done.

I pray that God's will be done.

... of course I said [b]I do not pray "God please kill this or that sinner"[/b], but that was not good enough for he who has self appointed himself the judge of our hearts.[/quote]So basically... you don't pray for the death of individual sinners, you just pray for the will of God, which according to you is the MASS death of sinners. Well, now that you put it that way, I'm not sure why anyone would be confused.

But yeah, like you don't judge people... I seem to recall several discussions that I explicitly, directly, and clearly said I was not a socialist. Which you then insisted I was and condemned me for it. In this discussion, I'm just asking that you clearly, directly, and explicitly clarify what you mean. If this is the best you can offer, I know the impression I'm walking away with...

[KnightofChrist]

[quote name='Sternhauser' timestamp='1294267924' post='2197178']
[b]

Do you pray, "God, please kill all them sinners what need killin'?"

~Sternhauser
[/b]
[/quote]

I pray God's merciful will be done, and I've already answered a version of that question. I do not pray "God please kill this or that sinner", "them sinners that need killin" would just be another way to state "God please kill this or that sinner. Note though as an act of mercy God will dåmn souls to hell which is much worse than death. Yet I still pray for that part of God's will to be done, because I pray for God's will to be done no matter how hard a teaching or saying it may be. Can't wait to be judge for that as well.

Edited January 5, 2011 by KnightofChrist

[Sternhauser]

[quote name='Mr.CatholicCat' timestamp='1294268276' post='2197180']
So basically... you don't pray for the death of individual sinners, you just pray for the will of God, which according to you is the MASS death of sinners. Well, now that you put it that way, I'm not sure why anyone would be confused.

But yeah, like you don't judge people... I seem to recall several discussions that I explicitly, directly, and clearly said I was not a socialist. Which you then insisted I was and condemned me for it. In this discussion, I'm just asking that you clearly, directly, and explicitly clarify what you mean. If this is the best you can offer, I know the impression I'm walking away with...
[/quote]

Yeah, I'm pretty sure you haven't judged anyone's heart whatsoever. You have questioned what they mean when they talk about willing God's wrath upon a bunch of people. That's all.

~Sternhauser

[HisChildForever]

[quote name='Mr.CatholicCat' timestamp='1294268276' post='2197180']
So basically... you don't pray for the death of individual sinners, you just pray for the will of God, which according to you is the MASS death of sinners. Well, now that you put it that way, I'm not sure why anyone would be confused.

But yeah, like you don't judge people... I seem to recall several discussions that I explicitly, directly, and clearly said I was not a socialist. Which you then insisted I was and condemned me for it. In this discussion, I'm just asking that you clearly, directly, and explicitly clarify what you mean. If this is the best you can offer, I know the impression I'm walking away with...
[/quote]

Are we not supposed to pray for the Will of God? We live our lives according to His Will. Or at least we are supposed to.

[Sternhauser]

[quote name='KnightofChrist' timestamp='1294268374' post='2197181']
I pray God's merciful will be done, and I've already answered a version of that question. I do not pray "God please kill this or that sinner", "them sinners that need killin" would just be another way to state "God please kill this or that sinner. Note though as an act of mercy God will dåmn souls to hell which is much worse than death. Yet I still pray for that part of God's will to be done, because I pray for God's will to be done no matter how hard a teaching or saying it may be. Can't wait to be judge for that as well.
[/quote]

God doesn't directly will to execute wrath on anyone, but you are directly willing it by praying for him to execute wrath. Is that a fair estimation?

~Sternhauser

[KnightofChrist]

[quote name='Sternhauser' timestamp='1294268569' post='2197184']
God doesn't directly will to execute wrath on anyone, but you are directly willing it by praying for him to execute wrath. Is that a fair estimation?

~Sternhauser
[/quote]

I pray for will of God. IT IS THAT SIMPLE.

[HisChildForever]

[quote name='KnightofChrist' timestamp='1294268699' post='2197187']
I pray for will of God. IT IS THAT SIMPLE.
[/quote]

Unfortunately, what you are explaining does not seem to matter. They want you to say "Yes, I pray for the death of unrepentant sinners" even though we both know you do no such thing lol.

[Mr.Cat]

[quote name='Sternhauser' timestamp='1294268569' post='2197184']God doesn't directly will to execute wrath on anyone, but you are directly willing it by praying for him to execute wrath. Is that a fair estimation? [/quote]I'm letting go of this matter, I will only actively entertain the benefit of the doubt for so long. As a wise Priest once told me, God gives to us what we give and what we ask, maybe that should be warning enough for those who dare pray for God's vengeance and wrath.

Edited January 5, 2011 by Mr.CatholicCat

[Sternhauser]

[quote name='KnightofChrist' timestamp='1294268699' post='2197187']
I pray for will of God. IT IS THAT SIMPLE.
[/quote]

But that doesn't appear to be what you said earlier, when you agreed with the Priest of God who said, " But let us not blanch from[b] raising our voices to the Lord,[/b] with righteous anger and hot tears, [b]to visit His vengeance upon those who did this,[/b] [in other words, this or that sinner][b] to bring down His wrath upon their heads,[/b] [b]to exact upon them a terrifying price in full measure[/b] for their grievous sins."

Are you now distancing yourself from this man's statement? Or do you maintain that it is all right to directly intend God to bring down wrath upon evildoers, while God himself does not directly will such a thing? Or do you maintain that God does, in fact, directly will to bring down wrath upon evildoers?

~Sternhauser

[HisChildForever]

In the Our Father, we pray "Thy will be done". Anyone who has prayed that prayer has asked God to execute His just judgment on the world. God is merciful but He is also the just judge.

[Sternhauser]

[quote name='HisChildForever' timestamp='1294270017' post='2197191']
In the Our Father, we pray "Thy will be done". Anyone who has prayed that prayer has asked God to execute His just judgment on the world. God is merciful but He is also the just judge.
[/quote]

Those sentences are immaterial to any of the questions I asked. The important distinction is between "direct" and "indirect" will. The Priest of God was directly willing something in his prayer, and I want Knight to accept or disavow what the Priest of God directly willed.

~Sternhauser

Edited January 5, 2011 by Sternhauser