Winchester Posted January 2, 2011 Share Posted January 2, 2011 [quote name='pjrizzo' timestamp='1294003238' post='2195961'] hello. Hope all is well and thank you for your response. To help you understand what the Bible teaches about mankind's sin nature, you must understand the character of God. He is perfect love, mercy, grace, truth, and several other adjectives. But above all, as the seraphim cry continually (Is 6), he is Holy, Holy, Holy. Therefore, he can not simply overlook sin. If you have not live a perfect life from the day you are born until death, your sin must be paid for. No amount of good things you do, or religious activities can pay. Only the precious blood of Jesus, and his payment that you have trusted fully for your sin. Then, when you die and meet God, he does not see your sin, but the perfect righteousness of Jesus covering you. That is the only way to go to heaven. If not, you are judged for your own sin and are sent to hell. The Bible makes it quite clear. No purgatory, limbo, or any other nonsense. Consider an earthly judge who aquits a criminal. Would he be fair? Loving? Of course not. How much more than, the God of all Justice. Jesus said "repent and believe." I urge you, in love, to read and TEST the Bible to see if it proves to be true. Do not take my, or any else's opinion. Nothing matters but Truth. I have plenty of info. to share, if you would like, or just ask others who are seeking Truth. If you die trusting in a religious system like Romanism, you will be lost. in Christ PR [/quote] Literacy: Now required for Salvation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AudreyGrace Posted January 3, 2011 Share Posted January 3, 2011 [quote name='pjrizzo' timestamp='1294003238' post='2195961'] hello. Hope all is well and thank you for your response. To help you understand what the Bible teaches about mankind's sin nature, you must understand the character of God. He is perfect love, mercy, grace, truth, and several other adjectives. But above all, as the seraphim cry continually (Is 6), he is Holy, Holy, Holy. Therefore, he can not simply overlook sin. If you have not live a perfect life from the day you are born until death, your sin must be paid for. No amount of good things you do, or religious activities can pay. Only the precious blood of Jesus, and his payment that you have trusted fully for your sin. Then, when you die and meet God, he does not see your sin, but the perfect righteousness of Jesus covering you. That is the only way to go to heaven. If not, you are judged for your own sin and are sent to hell. The Bible makes it quite clear. No purgatory, limbo, or any other nonsense. Consider an earthly judge who aquits a criminal. Would he be fair? Loving? Of course not. How much more than, the God of all Justice. Jesus said "repent and believe." I urge you, in love, to read and TEST the Bible to see if it proves to be true. Do not take my, or any else's opinion. Nothing matters but Truth. I have plenty of info. to share, if you would like, or just ask others who are seeking Truth. If you die trusting in a religious system like Romanism, you will be lost. in Christ PR [/quote] Hello! I hope you had a great new year celebration : ) What doesn't seem quite right about your statement is that all we must do to earn eternal life with God is believe. That seems a bit too easy. As Christians, we are called to be "little Christs" which means taking up our crosses and carrying them. It means being like Christ and helping others, aka doing good works. These things are essential. Jesus wasn't a talker, he was a do-er. I agree with what you said that your sin must be paid for. Sin is never okay, whether we are saved or not. God does not overlook sin. The ends (claiming salvation at judgement day) does not justify the means (sinning occasionally on earth as a human being). As for purgatory, the word itself is not mentioned in the Bible. "Purgatory" is simply the name given by the Church to a place talked about in scriptures. Some say this is what Jesus referred to as "Abraham's bosom." (Luke 16:19-31). Also, if you read 2Maccabees, there is evidence of a place other than heaven or hell for souls to be released of their sins. Besides, in Rev 21:27, it says that nothing imperfect can enter heaven. Anyone who has sinned, whether saved or not, is imperfect and cannot enter heaven. Finally, Matthew 12: 31-32 discusses sin against the Spirit, and that it cannot be forgiven in this life or in the life to come, opening up the possibility that there is a place in the afterlife in which sins can be forgiven- "Purgatory". Similarly, the word "trinity" is not mentioned in the Bible, rather it is a name given to express a well-backed up biblical idea: that there is one God, divine Father, his Holy Spirit, and his manifestation on Earth as part human part divine. Although the word "trinity" is not clearly stated in the Bible, many Christians know that there is One God in Three Persons. I l-o-v-e that you said we can only be saved through the precious blood of Jesus! Amen! : ) This is why Catholics strictly adhere to Jesus's teaching of his flesh and blood. "For my flesh is true food and my blood is true drink. If you do not eat my flesh or drink my blood, you will not have eternal life." It continues to say that others left him for they did not want to believe that they had to eat his flesh and actually drink his blood. However, if Jesus was talking symbolically, He would have said "oh no, don't worry, I was talking symbolically. Come back, don't leave." Instead, he let them go. Thank you for your urging for me to read the Word of God, As Christians, we must always encourage one another to turn to His word. So, thank you! I will continue to do so. However, I will not test the word of God. That is a sin. The Bible is God-inspired. Jesus told Satan "you shall not put the Lord your God to the test." Since God's will=Bible, I will not test it. But I will of course read it. : ) It seems to me that you take everything in the Bible quite literally. I hope you don't, otherwise you'd be completely subservient to men and wear a veil at all times so your head will be covered. I doubt you do these things lol. As I've searched for Truth within Christianity, the answers provided to me by the Catholic Church through the scriptures have been quite useful. Everything is explained, leaving no room for me to ask "why", as I experienced with other Christian denominations. I pray that you have the same blessings in your search for the truth. Thank you so much : ) -Audrey Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
holly.o Posted January 3, 2011 Share Posted January 3, 2011 (edited) [quote name='pjrizzo' timestamp='1294003605' post='2195965'] To help you understand what the Bible teaches about our sin nature, you must understand the character of God. He is perfect love, mercy, grace, truth, and several other adjectives. But above all, as the seraphim cry continually (Is 6), he is Holy, Holy, Holy. [/quote] I love that part of the Mass! Sanctus, sanctus, sanctus... [quote]Therefore, he can not simply overlook sin. If you have not live a perfect life from the day you are born until death, your sin must be paid for. No amount of good things you do, or religious activities can pay. Only the precious blood of Jesus, and his payment that you have trusted fully for your sin. [/quote] Thank God I receive Our Lord in His entirety - body, blood, soul, and divinity - as often as I receive Holy Communion at Mass. [quote]Then, when you die and meet God, he does not see your sin, but the perfect righteousness of Jesus covering you. That is the only way to go to heaven. If not, you are judged for your own sin and are sent to hell. The Bible makes it quite clear. No purgatory, limbo, or any other nonsense. [/quote] Can you explain how Jesus righteousness "covers" us? This makes it sound as though we are just putting on a cloak, that we are not truly transformed, as we are called to be. As though Jesus only did something halfway... [quote]Consider an earthly judge who aquits a criminal. Would he be fair? Loving? Of course not. How much more than, the God of all Justice. Jesus said "repent and believe." I urge you, in love, to read and TEST the Bible to see if it proves to be true.[/quote] Many people have done this and come up with their own opinion of what that "truth" is. Now we have hundreds (probably thousands, but I don't have the statistics for that... however, living in the South, I think I can vouch for about a hundred) of different denominations. How does one test the Bible? What is there to test it against? [quote]Do not take my, or any else's opinion. Nothing matters but Truth.[/quote] One of my other favorite parts of the Mass in the Extraordinary Form... the last Gospel: [i]Et Verbum caro factum est et habitavit in nobis et vidimus gloriam eius gloriam quasi unigeniti a Patre [b]plenum gratiae et veritatis[/b][/i]. Our Lord is Truth, and He is present physically, really, substantially only at the Mass. It is a grace to be able to see Him, a grace that will not be found in arguments but in [i][b]prayer and humility[/b][/i]. [quote]I have plenty of info. to share, if you would like, or just ask others who are seeking Truth. If you die trusting in a religious system like Romanism, you will be lost.[/quote] As Catholics, we trust in Our Lord, who, in addition to sacrificing Himself on the cross, went so far as to give us Holy Mother Church to make that trust tangible to our weak human natures. His love is far beyond the limits place on it by Protestantism. Pax et bonum. Edited January 3, 2011 by holly.o Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tally Marx Posted January 3, 2011 Share Posted January 3, 2011 (edited) Double post. Edited January 3, 2011 by Tally Marx Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tally Marx Posted January 3, 2011 Share Posted January 3, 2011 (edited) Double post... Edited January 3, 2011 by Tally Marx Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tally Marx Posted January 3, 2011 Share Posted January 3, 2011 (edited) Again.... Edited January 3, 2011 by Tally Marx Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tally Marx Posted January 3, 2011 Share Posted January 3, 2011 (edited) How on earth...???!! Edited January 3, 2011 by Tally Marx Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tally Marx Posted January 3, 2011 Share Posted January 3, 2011 (edited) [quote name='pjrizzo' timestamp='1294003605' post='2195965'] hello. Hope all is well and thank you for your response. My main point in studying Truth is that two opposing statements can not both be true at the same time. Virtually all Roman Dogma contradicts the Bible. I am happy to send a partial list to you. So who do you believe? My reason for leaving the Catholic cult, was that I was told not to question their doctrine, (for fear I should escape, I suppose). [/quote] Actually, it has been my experience that those who accept Church teaching without question, have already questioned the Church and have found her quite trustworthy. Why continue to question one who is already trustworthy? Why doubt a good person's word? It has also been my experience that the Church and the Bible [i]never [/i]contradict. They may [i]seem[/i] to, at a glance, but if you really understand both the Church and the Bible, you will see that they are in reality always in harmony. In fact, it's been said that their harmony creates a song--to ignore one or the other is to miss the meaning completely. I saw your list. To be sincere, I have seen many lists like it. I've considered them, answered the questions, only to find that those asking the questions aren't open to the answers; those who say that[i] I[/i] should listen, aren't inclined to listen themselves. So... I quit answering. I only discuss such matters with people who are willing to actually discuss it. I'm sorry, but you don't seem inclined to discuss or listen. You already said you don't want an intellectual debate. I'll listen, if you will. I like to ask questions and provide answers. I do not like to receive lectures, however well-meaning. Instead of a list, could you please tell me just [i]one[/i] doctrine you have a problem with? Explain what you think the doctrine means and why you disagree with it. Then, I will answer to the best of my ability, and ask a question of my own. Would you like to do this? Edited January 3, 2011 by Tally Marx Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Archaeology cat Posted January 3, 2011 Share Posted January 3, 2011 [quote name='Winchester' timestamp='1294008541' post='2195992'] Literacy: Now required for Salvation. [/quote] I've actually spoken with someone who admitted the Papacy was perhaps necessary at first, but now that most people are literate and we have the Bible, we don't need a Pope. Please pray for her. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lil Red Posted January 3, 2011 Share Posted January 3, 2011 [quote name='Archaeology cat' timestamp='1294048285' post='2196124'] I've actually spoken with someone who admitted the Papacy was perhaps necessary at first, but now that most people are literate and we have the Bible, we don't need a Pope. Please pray for her. [/quote]what about third world countries? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Archaeology cat Posted January 3, 2011 Share Posted January 3, 2011 (edited) [quote name='Lil Red' timestamp='1294064862' post='2196141'] what about third world countries? [/quote] I think I brought that up. Didn't get an answer on that one, as far as I remember. Edited January 3, 2011 by Archaeology cat Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Winchester Posted January 3, 2011 Share Posted January 3, 2011 [quote name='Archaeology cat' timestamp='1294048285' post='2196124'] I've actually spoken with someone who admitted the Papacy was perhaps necessary at first, but now that most people are literate and we have the Bible, we don't need a Pope. Please pray for her. [/quote] The great hersiarchs were literate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Archaeology cat Posted January 3, 2011 Share Posted January 3, 2011 [quote name='Winchester' timestamp='1294069431' post='2196151'] The great hersiarchs were literate. [/quote] Indeed they were. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Papist Posted January 3, 2011 Share Posted January 3, 2011 (edited) [color="black"][font="Arial"][size="2"]Hey PR. This is awesome news!!! How do I get in on this guaranteed salvation regardless of what I do...and don't do? That will be sweet if I can still go to heaven after I leave my wife and run off with my neighbor's 14 year old daughter...against her will of course. [/size][/font][/color] [color="black"][font="Arial"][size="2"]But wait a minute...I need your help trying to figure out if either Christ lied or failed when He said He will protect His [/size][/font][/color][font="Arial"][size="2"]Church until the end of time…b/c if what you say is true it has to be one or the other.[/size][/font] [font="Arial"][size="2"]Also, please explain John 21:25 -[color="red"] There are also many other things that Jesus did, but if these were to be described individually, I do not think the whole world would contain the books that would be written. [/color]I always thought this meant that Jesus did more than what is written in the Bible. [/size][/font] [font="Arial"] [/font] [font="Arial"][size="2"]Please help me!!!![/size][/font][img]http://www.phatmass.com/phorum/public/style_emoticons/default/blink.gif[/img] Edited January 3, 2011 by Papist Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CatherineM Posted January 3, 2011 Share Posted January 3, 2011 I don't know. There may be more literate people in the third world than in North America soon. The highschool drop out rate in Alberta is around 40%. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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