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[pjrizzo]

[font="Century Gothic"][size="3"]My testimony[/size][/font]

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[size="3"][font="Century Gothic"] I was raised Roman Catholic in a typical Italian Catholic family generations deep. Infant baptized, first communion, confirmation, catholic school, marriage, alter server, church board, organist/ music director for area churches including the bishop of Albany, NY. Traveled twice to Rome to visit Vatican, catacombs, holy relics, etc. [/font][/size]

[size="3"][font="Century Gothic"] Several years ago I heard the most amazing statement of Truth anyone could utter: that God is perfectly Holy, and that every human being who has ever lived is deserving of hell because we have all broken His perfect Law. There is nothing we can do to earn salvation and escape eternal judgment except trust, and believe by Faith, in the finished work, shed blood, and resurrection of Jesus Christ. No amount of good works can earn forgiveness. [/font][/size]

[size="3"][font="Century Gothic"] I then bought a Bible and read it from Genesis to Revelation. What I read contradicted everything I had learned from Catholicism. I questioned every “priest” “bishop” and “nun” I had trusted since childhood. None dared question the “authority” of the Magesterium.[/font][/size]

[size="3"][font="Century Gothic"] I soon resigned my rather lucrative position with the catholic church. After years of biblical study as well as historical research on the persecution by the catholic church on those who dared to hold to “[b]Sola[/b] [b]Scriptura[/b]” (Scripture alone) I have dedicated the rest of my life to educating, informing those still indoctrinated by the catholic faith, and helping them to understand the assurance of salvation found in the true Gospel of Jesus Christ. Salvation is not found in a [b]religion[/b] but a [b]relationship[/b] with the lover of your soul. It is the person of Jesus Christ alone.[/font][/size]

[size="3"][font="Century Gothic"] As difficult as this is to believe, official Roman Catholic dogma is not, has never been, nor ever will be Christian. Either the Bible is the final and complete authority and revelation of God, or it is not. [/font][/size]
[size="3"][font="Century Gothic"] The belief in the authority of Scripture began with [b]Jesus [/b]himself- "you break the commands of Scripture for the sake of your tradition" Matt 15:3; "the Scriptures can not be broken" Jn 10:35; and by [b]Paul [/b]"all Scripture is God-breathed....." 2 Tim 3:16; 1 Cor 2:4-5, 1 Thess 2”13,1 Cor 4:6 and by [b]Peter[/b] "men spoke from God as they were moved by the Holy Spirit" 2 Pet 1:20, 2 Pet 3:16.[/font][/size]

[size="3"][font="Century Gothic"] These and numerous other passages point to God's authority in His Word, and the understanding by Jesus, Paul, Peter, and the apostles, was that the Scriptures were and still are the final and complete revelation of God.[/font][/size]

[size="3"][font="Century Gothic"] In addition, there is overwhelming evidence from the sub-apostolic period (the first three hundred years after the last apostle died) that the early church also believed in the authority of Scripture alone. Here are just a few of the dozens of early church fathers among hundreds of quotes which support Sola Scriptura:[/font][/size]

[size="3"][font="Century Gothic"][b]Irenaus[/b] (circa 140 AD) [i][u]Against Heresies vol 1[/u][/i][b]-[/b] “ We have learned from none others, the plan of our salvation, than those through whom the Gospel has come down to us, by the will of God, handed down to us in [b]the Scriptures, to be the ground and pillar of our faith[/b]. For it is unlawful to assert that they preached before they had perfect knowledge, as some venture to say,[b] [i]boasting[/i] [i]themselves as improvers of the apostles”[/i].[/b][/font][/size]

[size="3"][font="Century Gothic"] “The Scriptures are indeed perfect, since they were spoken by the Word of God and His Spirit”[/font][/size]

[size="3"][font="Century Gothic"] “When they (who hold tradition) are confuted from the Scriptures, they accuse the Scriptures as if they are not correct, that they are ambiguous, and that the Truth cannot be extracted by those who are ignorant of tradition, for they allege that the truth was not delivered by means of written documents, but via voce”.[/font][/size]

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[size="3"][font="Century Gothic"][b]Justin Martyr [/b](circa 150 AD) [i][u]Dialog of Justin Vol.1[/u][/i]- “pay attention, therefore, to what I shall record out of the [b]Holy Scriptures, [i]which do not[/i][/b] [b][i]need to be expounded, only listened to[/i].”[/b][/font][/size]

[size="3"][font="Century Gothic"] “if I undertook to prove truth by doctrines or arguments of man, you should not bear with me. But if I quote Scriptures, and so many of them, and ask you to comprehend them, you are bound to recognize the mind and will of God.”[/font][/size]

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[size="3"][font="Century Gothic"][b]Tertullian[/b] (circa 170) [i][u]Against Hermoneges Vol 3[/u][/i]- If it is nowhere written, let fear and woe which impends on all who add or take away from the written Word”[/font][/size]

[size="3"][font="Century Gothic"] [b]“What Scripture does not denote, it denies”[/b][/font][/size]

[size="3"][font="Century Gothic"] “Take away then the wisdom of heretics and heathens and let them [b][i]support their inquiries from Scripture alone”[/i][/b][/font][/size]

[size="3"][font="Century Gothic"][b]Athenasius[/b] (circa 300) [i][u]De Decretis Vol 4[/u][/i]- “and we have proof, [b]not from external sources, but from the Scriptures”[/b][/font][/size]

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[size="3"][font="Century Gothic"][b]Cyril of Jerusalem[/b] (circa 320) [i][u]Catechetical Lectures[/u][/i]- “not even a casual statement must be delivered without the Holy Scriptures”[/font][/size]

[size="3"][font="Century Gothic"] [b]“believe not what I say, unless thou learn it from the Holy Scriptures”[/b][/font][/size]

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[size="3"][font="Century Gothic"][b]Jerome[/b] (circa 350) [i][u]Homilies of St. Jerome- “the Lord tells on the Holy Writings, [b]read by all people, so that all may understand”. [/b][/u][/i][/font][/size]

[size="3"][font="Century Gothic"][b] [/b]“no matter how holy anyone may be after the time of the apostles, no matter how eloquent, [b]he does not have authority to alter the Scriptures”[/b][/font][/size]

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[size="3"][font="Century Gothic"][b]Augustine[/b] (circa 350)- [i][u]St. Augustine Vol 8[/u][/i]- God hath lowered the Scriptures even to the level of babes and sucklings”[/font][/size]

[size="3"][font="Century Gothic"] “you exaggerate how difficult the knowledge of the Sacred Scriptures, claiming it is only suited for a learned few”[/font][/size]

[size="3"][font="Century Gothic"] “I agree to whatever writing comports with Divine Scriptures, but whatever does not agree I reject.”[/font][/size]

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[size="3"][font="Century Gothic"] This understanding was held during the middle ages by bible believing Christians like the Waldensians; Huguenauts; Lollards, as well as martyrs such as John Wycliffe, William Tyndale, John Knox, Jon Huss, and countless other Christians (men women and children) who were brutally murdered by the catholic "church" for their faith in the Bible alone. Martin Luther was just a man God used to open wide the gate of freedom to those held captive in a false religious system that plunged most of Europe into the dark ages for a millennium.[/font][/size]

[size="3"][font="Century Gothic"] Regarding Roman Catholic dogma, if I had not spent the last fifteen years of my life studying and questioning "mother church", I would not have left a very lucrative and highly respected career in romanism, as church music director, and part time organist to the bishop of Albany, NY. I made a great deal of money doing weddings, "masses", funerals, even baptisms. I am humbled to defend the Truth for which thousands have given their blood. Salvation is found in Jesus alone, by Grace alone, through Faith alone, as taught by the all-sufficient, inerrant, final revelation of God which is Scripture alone. If you die trusting any catholic ritual or sacrament, or "priest" or membership in the "church", you will die in your sin. God is perfectly Holy, and no amount of "works" can pay. Trust only in the finished work of Jesus and believe in Him only for salvation. [/font][/size]

[size="3"][font="Century Gothic"] I pray the Holy Spirit will remove the blinders from your eyes, and those of other well meaning catholics, most of whom, I believe, genuinely want to know and have a love relationship with Jesus.[/font][/size]

[size="3"][font="Century Gothic"] My challenges to my Roman Catholic friends: give me a convincing example of some doctrinal or ethical principle which make the following five criteria. Give me an example of some doctrinal or ethical principle that is (1) not already in Scripture; (2) not contrary to Scripture; (3) is necessary in some sense to the Christian life or Church (necessary); and (4) could not have been revealed during the days of the Apostles.[/font][/size]

[size="3"][font="Century Gothic"] I urge all catholics to know the fullness and assurance of heaven guaranteed by a living relationship with the lover of our souls. Jesus said "you must be born again" Jn 3:3.[/font][/size]


[font="Century Gothic"][size="3"]saved by Grace
PR[/size][/font]

[cmotherofpirl]

welcome to phatmass. For someone who claims to be catholic you haver a very flawed education of catholic teaching.

The New Testament is a collection of documents put together by the Catholic Church, and is the sole guarentee of its authenticity. To believe in the Scriptures one must automatically believe in the Church, because the Scripture is a snapshot of the early church and teachings. It never claims to hold all knowledge demanded of it by those people that erronously hold to Sola Scriptura. I have read the entire Scriptue 5x and find it a deep and enriching fountain, but nothing that contradicts the Catholic Church from which it has been entrusted.



" I am already saved (Rom. 8:24, Eph. 2:5–8), but I’m also being saved (1 Cor. 1:18, 2 Cor. 2:15, Phil. 2:12), and I have the hope that I will be saved (Rom. 5:9–10, 1 Cor. 3:12–15). Like the apostle Paul I am working out my salvation in fear and trembling (Phil. 2:12), with hopeful confidence in the promises of Christ (Rom. 5:2, 2 Tim. 2:11–13)."

[add]

3 in 1

the father
the son
the holy spirit

[Jesus_lol]

[quote name='apparently' timestamp='1293831900' post='2195540']
3 in 1

the father
the son
the holy spirit
[/quote]


like a shamrock! or an allseason tire!

[Cam42]

@ pj,

Welcome. Somehow, I think that you think that you're setting a trap. Kinda like teeing up a golf ball, waiting for someone to respond. Well....let me hit it down the fairway for you.

I'll try to respond as linearly as possible. First, you say that you believe only in the finished work and that it is faith alone that will save you. How do you know? Did God tell you this directly? This leads to all sorts of issues, but first and foremost, how do you have any certainty, outside yourself? You say that no amount of good works can earn forgiveness. How do you justify James 2:17-26? That becomes a very difficult problem for the whole sola fide crowd.

The reason nobody challenged the Magisterium is that they accpeted and believed it, presumably (I can only presume they did, because I wasn't there). If they accepted it, there would be no reason to challenge it. That is pretty simple. Their job is not to convince you that their faith is strong, but rather it is for them to teach you that your faith is based in the Church.

Then you gave up a lucrative position in the local Church. I woul love to know exactly what it was, because being a musician for any local Church cannot be considered "lucrative." Lucrative is being and excecutive of a company, such as a president or CEO. Being an organist is not. Sorry to be blunt, but I think that you may be exaggerating a little, to try and prove a point. It doesn't fly with us, we don't really care about the money, because we all know that the money isn't really there. And if you think that $30K-$50K is lucrative, I have some oceanfront property in Missouri for you to invest in.

Sola Scriptura....who gave you the Scriptures? I'll go ahead and answer that for you. It was the Catholic Church. Prior to the Church codifying the Bible, there was nothing to determine what the Bible was. So, if you're truly Sola Scriptura, then you have to concede that perhaps the so-called Gospel of Peter could be divinely inspired, or the so-called Gospel of Mary, because prior to the codification, there were a myriad of books that were used. But pretty early on the Church, led by her bishops, determined that there were certain books that were divinely inspired and some that were not. So, I would love to know what makes up your Bible.

BTW, what is your source for Sacred Scripture? Because your translation of Matthew 15:3 is incorrect. It mentions nothing about "scripture." What it talks about is the commandments of God (mandatum Dei propter traditionem vestram). That is hardly Scripture. There wasn't a "Bible" during the time of Christ.

As for what the Fathers of the Church that you present, I agree with everything that they say regarding Holy Writ. They have not said anything that is inconsistent with Church teaching. Sacred Scripture is just as important to Catholics now as it was the day the Bible was codified.

So, I assume that by your statement that you only believe in Jesus for your salvation, that you are a unitarian now? Because it is only in the Trinity (the complete Godhead) that we are saved....oh, the Trinity fits your FOUR criteria. The Trinity is not mentioned in Scripture. The Trinity is not contrary. The Trinity is necessary and as far as being revealed during Apostolic times, it was understood at Pentecost, but wasn't defined until much later.

And how John 3:3 accomplished? Yes, by a work. It was accomplished by the Sacrament of Baptism. John 3:4. Your Sola Scriptura and Sola Fide betray you.

[CatherineM]

You had my attention until you used lucrative position and Catholic Church in the same sentence.

[Cam42]

[quote name='CatherineM' timestamp='1293833652' post='2195550']
You had my attention until you used lucrative position and Catholic Church in the same sentence.
[/quote]

[Socrates]

Hi, nice text dump.

Here's some reading for you:

[url="http://www.catholic.com/library/church_papacy.asp"]CHURCH & PAPACY[/url]

[Starets]

[quote name='pjrizzo' timestamp='1293828595' post='2195526']
[font="Century Gothic"][size="3"]My testimony[/size][/font]

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Hi Stormstopper.

[Lil Red]

[quote name='CatherineM' timestamp='1293833652' post='2195550']
You had my attention until you used lucrative position and Catholic Church in the same sentence.
[/quote]
yeah, i tend to think people are lying when they do that.

[Socrates]

That's why we're Catholic. The Big Bucks.

Join up, and you too can be rich and famous.

[Brother Adam]

Welcome PR, thank you for taking me up on my offer to join phatmass. I hope you are able to stick around and really have a good discussion with the Catholics here. The great thing is, everyone here is interested in the same thing - the truth. Let's look at the claims together, and examine the evidence, the evidence does after all, demand a verdict.

[pjrizzo]

hello and thank you for your response. I enjoy dialog with someone truly interested in Truth. Your statement about where the Bible came from is erroneous. As demonstrated by the words of Jesus, the disciples, many of the early church fathers, as well as Bible believing martyrs throughout history, the Word of God was written by God Himself, given through men (2 Pet 1:20) by divine inspiration, and discovered by the early church on the basis of apostolic authorship, universal acceptance, and Spirit authority. It is God's full and final revelation of all redemptive Truth. Take the time and effort to study koine greek and read the earliest manuscripts for yourself. Don't rely on my or anyone else's word. If you die trusting some religious system of rituals (baptism, communion, confirmation, last rites, rosaries, candles, holy water,) or other such nonsense, your sin WILL NOT BE PAID FOR and you will be in hell. Trust only in the finished work of Jesus on the cross and his resurrection to have fully paid your sin debt. Make Him your Lord a Savior. I don't know you at all, other than you are a fellow human being who is in great danger tonight. I will pray the Holy Spirit will open your eyes and your heart to His saving power.
saved by Grace
PR

[quote name='cmotherofpirl' timestamp='1293830399' post='2195535']
welcome to phatmass. For someone who claims to be catholic you haver a very flawed education of catholic teaching.

The New Testament is a collection of documents put together by the Catholic Church, and is the sole guarentee of its authenticity. To believe in the Scriptures one must automatically believe in the Church, because the Scripture is a snapshot of the early church and teachings. It never claims to hold all knowledge demanded of it by those people that erronously hold to Sola Scriptura. I have read the entire Scriptue 5x and find it a deep and enriching fountain, but nothing that contradicts the Catholic Church from which it has been entrusted.



" I am already saved (Rom. 8:24, Eph. 2:5–8), but I'm also being saved (1 Cor. 1:18, 2 Cor. 2:15, Phil. 2:12), and I have the hope that I will be saved (Rom. 5:9–10, 1 Cor. 3:12–15). Like the apostle Paul I am working out my salvation in fear and trembling (Phil. 2:12), with hopeful confidence in the promises of Christ (Rom. 5:2, 2 Tim. 2:11–13)."
[/quote]

[pjrizzo]

hello and thank you. If you've read my story, you will know why I have such a burdon for those blinded by a false religious system as I was for so many years. Like seeing people trapped in a building (9/11 and other disasters) I can't sit passively by and while you and your readers die in your sin, trusting, as I once did, religious rituals (baptism, communion, altar boy, confirmation, last rites, church attendance, rosaries, candles, prayers for dead, prayers to dead "saints" including Mary) and other such nonsense, instead of trusting in the finished work of Christ on the cross to pay, once for all, our sin debt. That is, provided we trust Him alone for salvation so that our perfect Holy, Holy, Holy God in heaven sees us covered by His precious blood.
No amount of "good works" can pay for sin.(Is 64:6). (Eph 2:8-10). Christ alone, by Grace alone, through Faith alone, revealed by Scripture alone.
I pray many souls will be saved as the result being given this opportunity to speak Truth.
bless you
PR



[quote name='Brother Adam' timestamp='1293842769' post='2195599']
Welcome PR, thank you for taking me up on my offer to join phatmass. I hope you are able to stick around and really have a good discussion with the Catholics here. The great thing is, everyone here is interested in the same thing - the truth. Let's look at the claims together, and examine the evidence, the evidence does after all, demand a verdict.
[/quote]

[pjrizzo]

hello. hope all is well. I appreciate your sense of humor. I obviously don't know any of you on this site, so my reason for writing my not be apparent at first. I feel no need to win any intellectual argument, nor to offend people who like me as a catholic, genuinely wanted to please God.
My reason here is to hopefully and prayerfully encourage you to ask questions, as I did, and not stop until you find the Truth". If I had died while practicing the catholic religion, trusting all the rituals, I would have been in hell, because my sin was not paid for. The sinless life, death, and resurrection of Jesus paid the debt I could not pay. Because He is my Lord (that means to do what he commands in Scripture) and Savior, when I die I can face the perfect Holy God covered by the precious blood of Jesus and His righteousness becomes my own. Halleluia!
Do you want to face God based on you being a "good person"? I am afraid that would be a tragedy for you.
The first sermon Jesus ever preached was "repent and believe...." Mk 1:15. You are in danger tonight if you have not done that.
bless you
PR
[quote name='Socrates' timestamp='1293840257' post='2195586']
That's why we're Catholic. The Big Bucks.

Join up, and you too can be rich and famous.
[/quote]