Sexual Attraction And Marriage

[CatherineM]

[quote name='Light and Truth' timestamp='1295044093' post='2200134']
Family's can be adopted. Usually if one person has a strong desire for sex and the children that would produce, and the other was not interested, those marriages don't last often and are unusual in the first place.
[/quote]
My inlaws are weird all right. Been married over 50 years, but have never slept all night in the same bed. She barely lets him in the same room with her.

[Tab'le De'Bah-Rye]

[quote name='CatherineM' timestamp='1295035512' post='2200105']
My mother in law did not allow my father in law to have sex with her for 5 years. He was being urged by his family to get the marriage annulled because he was in his 30's by then and wanted a family. As a last effort, he took her on pilgrimage to Assisi in Italy. I just don't understand why someone who didn't want to have sex would marry someone who really wanted a family. If both parties are asexual, that's a different matter.
[/quote]

On ewtn i heard about a lay saint whom was a women whom got married and they both took a vowe of chastity, i can't remember her name ask ewtn. If this is so and she is a saint than i assume it has been condoned by the church,if not she may have never been made an official saint.
God bless

[quote name='CatherineM' timestamp='1295048293' post='2200161']
My inlaws are weird all right. Been married over 50 years, but have never slept all night in the same bed. She barely lets him in the same room with her.
[/quote]

Weird or just a different calling to you?

[CatherineM]

[quote name='Tab'le Du'Bah-Rye' timestamp='1295069493' post='2200251']
On ewtn i heard about a lay saint whom was a women whom got married and they both took a vowe of chastity, i can't remember her name ask ewtn. If this is so and she is a saint than i assume it has been condoned by the church,if not she may have never been made an official saint.
God bless



Weird or just a different calling to you?
[/quote]
No, they are strange. In case you missed it, my father in law was not called to celibacy. He wanted a large family and had no reason to believe that he was marrying a woman who didn't. My mother in law refused to let him touch her for 5 years after their wedding. After their 3rd child, she never let him touch her again. My father in law has lived a very lonely, difficult life with this woman. He sleeps in the basement. She doesn't even let him have a chair in the living room. She not only refuses his company, she has systematically eliminated every friend or acquaintance he has ever had. The only people he ever gets to talk to are the homeless who hang out at the library he seeks refuge in every day. She rarely even lets my husband speak to his dad. He isn't allowed to use the phone, spend money, or throw anything away. They live in a home that would make the worst list on the TV show Hoarders. He has seriously done his time in Purgatory already.

[cmotherofpirl]

[quote name='CatherineM' timestamp='1295070805' post='2200260']
No, they are strange. In case you missed it, my father in law was not called to celibacy. He wanted a large family and had no reason to believe that he was marrying a woman who didn't. My mother in law refused to let him touch her for 5 years after their wedding. After their 3rd child, she never let him touch her again. My father in law has lived a very lonely, difficult life with this woman. He sleeps in the basement. She doesn't even let him have a chair in the living room. She not only refuses his company, she has systematically eliminated every friend or acquaintance he has ever had. The only people he ever gets to talk to are the homeless who hang out at the library he seeks refuge in every day. She rarely even lets my husband speak to his dad. He isn't allowed to use the phone, spend money, or throw anything away. They live in a home that would make the worst list on the TV show Hoarders. He has seriously done his time in Purgatory already.
[/quote]

Yet he chooses to live that way dearie.

[Ice_nine]

I hope not to hi-jack this thread but it's sorta relevant and something I've been thinking about a LOT lately.

What [i]is[/i] sexual attraction? I know what attraction is ok, like when you feel drawn to someone almost like something magnetic. But not all attraction to people is erotic. And I guess sexual attraction could be defined in coarse terms but what I don't get is, where do you draw the line between sexual attraction and lust? You would probably all say sexual attraction is a normal and licit phenomenon whereas lust is evil and conceptually that's all well and great but it's very abstract and in concrete experience hard to define.

So I get the concept: lust is bad, sexual attraction isn't necessarily bad, but what is the difference between the two to an unmarried person? Obviously sexual attraction within the sacrament of marriage is a great thing but outside marriage the lines are really blurred. I'm looking for a concrete tangible difference that can distinguish between the two.

In this day and age where there is so much confusion on sexuality, and where sexual-orientation (I'm honestly convinced that such a thing might not even really exist so rigidly within the human psyche) is a major point of identity I think it's an important question to ask.

Just as a quick background, I'm a young woman who through the teen years had a very dark and lustful mind, it never manifested itself in sexual sins with others but, you know . . . . It shames me to think of this, but I just say it so you know I'm not just one of those people born with a low sex drive or something like that. I mean I was pretty messed up to say the least. I usually didn't have lustful thoughts after a specific person, they were mostly twisted concoctions I cooked up in my imagination, but I can't help but think that the times when I did lust after specific people and even many of those random fantasies, [b]were triggered by me trying to figure out or coerce my sexuality in a box that could be easily identified. [/b]But hell it doesn't take long to see that the gay/straight binary fails now we have bi-sexuals, transgenders, asexuals, tri-sexuals, and yes even objectum-sexuals.

You see, I always got along better with girls. I connected with them better, was more capable of having deep relationships with them etc etc. I couldn't really relate to guys and although I could admire the physical beauty of both males and females, this inability to click with the boiz of course invariably led to the fear ZOMG I'M A HUGE LESBIAN AHHH. So then of course I had to "explore" my sexuality and find my identity and orientation so I mean, I had to think you know how does thinking about sexual relations with a man make me feel etc etc. It's a very confusing and turbulent time at that fragile young age. If I'm not sexually attracted to anything I'm a freak or I could just be a repressed homosexual oh noes! Then you hit the panic mode and this "exploration" can become rather dark and hostile.

I once read in an article, and I'm so mad that I can't relocate it, but it basically said "to identify one's sexuality by the thing/person/object/forget the exact word of said person's desire is a relatively new concept" and basically that's just how we think now and perhaps we should reexamine our understanding of sexual-orientation instead of just accepting it as "well that's just how it is."

I thank God that He has freed me from the grave sexual sins I have committed in the privacy of my own dark heart, and although there are still the occasional struggles, for the most part I've been able to remain pure. See the thing is I think about sex a lot. In the right context it's a beautiful thing, so mysterious and it's an illustration or foretaste of God's love and all that jazz, but in terms of my own future I don't know what my vocation is yet. Maybe I should get married and have a farm of kids or be a missionary or a cloistered nun. Don't know yet. But I realized something that was a bit of a revelation for me. As a Catholic I view sexuality in a radically different way than does that of the modern world, so why the hell do I keep trying to fit myself with a label that's been created in a post-freudian sex-obsessed world?

You know I'm not sexually attracted to anyone in particular, and I doubt I ever seriously have been. And I'm don't have a busted sex-drive at least in my opinion. And I guess a lot of people would assume with that knowledge that I must have intimacy issues or some other ish goin on that was causing all this confusion, but I don't think that's the case. I desire intimacy, like any human being does, but this does not have to be of a sexual nature, and I have a number of fulfilling relationships in which I'm open and vulnerable in that jazz.

So like for now I'm not sexually attracted to anyone, but I know that if I were to get married in the future, I would give myself fully to my husband in love and with a little practice I would rock his theoretical world , but you know that would be after I fell in love with his personality, his soul, all the tangible and intangible things, and then I feel in that context I feel sexual attraction would be appropriate (after the vows are said of course.)

But in this modern world my priorities would seem reversed and I would seem not normal for . . . not being sexually attracted until I'm married. Like that sounds like a major wtf concept for most people including Catholics! You know you tell people that they shouldn't feel guilty for being sexually attracted to another but what does that mean exactly? Is it merely physical arousal? Cause I'm sure we all know the human body is quirky and sometimes erm, things happen for seemingly no reason. What is it? Am I crazy for asking this?! I feel content now with how I view my sexuality. I can't say I'm heterosexual or homosexual or any of the other GLBTQ etc etc. All I know is if I ever become "sexually active" to borrow the phrase from culture, it would be with another man in wedlock whom I love and have striven to stay pure for, even to the point of keeping feelings of sexual attraction at bay until it was appropriate to exercise them.

But then that may come off as young, naive and pretentious like "you don't know what it's like to be in love the feelings are much stronger than you can imagine!" Ok I'll concede I've never fallen into the erotic variety of love, but sometimes I feel like there is a very subtle acquiescence to the modern idea that sex is too potent for us to control and doing so only makes us freakin crazy!

So I don't know I'm just bouncing all these thoughts around. If one person could assure me I'm not crazy that would be GREATLY appreciated.

[Tab'le De'Bah-Rye]

[quote name='Ice_nine' timestamp='1295078112' post='2200305']
I hope not to hi-jack this thread but it's sorta relevant and something I've been thinking about a LOT lately.



So I don't know I'm just bouncing all these thoughts around. If one person could assure me I'm not crazy that would be GREATLY appreciated.
[/quote]

Your not crazy, i'm still trying to figure it out as well,but i think your right that the foundation(for me anyhow) has to be agape and lasting over a period of time(not just a few dates) and untill the agape relationship is esteblished over a lasting period of time i to than hope to get married and embark on the other side of love eros without forgetting the agape, For possibly agape can survive without eros but eros can never survive without agape.
God Bless

Edited January 15, 2011 by Tab'le Du'Bah-Rye

[add]

all that glitters, is not gold
i have been married for 30 something years, it has never been about sex.
with no regrets

[tinytherese]

Lust is about using another person soley for your own benefit-to consume them, but sexual attraction is about giving and receiving each other as gifts to be treasured.

[CatherineM]

[quote name='cmotherofpirl' timestamp='1295071135' post='2200268']
Yet he chooses to live that way dearie.
[/quote]
Yeah, I'm not sure I could. He stayed together when the kids were younger because he was afraid to divorce her and for her to have custody, with good reason. After 20 years of living like that until the kids were older, I think he was so beaten down, he didn't care anymore. I suspect he is also afraid of her. She's a head taller and about 100 lbs. heavier than him, and mean in a way that I can't describe. The few times that he gets to talk on the phone, I can hear her screaming at him in the background like a banshee. There are agencies and organizations available for women in abusive situations, but not for men. Chances are if he had ever called the police for help, that they would have arrested him instead of her. It just makes me so grateful that my husband takes after his dad. Well, except for the schizophrenia. He obviously got that from his mom's side of the family.

[cmotherofpirl]

[quote name='CatherineM' timestamp='1295122004' post='2200441']
Yeah, I'm not sure I could. He stayed together when the kids were younger because he was afraid to divorce her and for her to have custody, with good reason. After 20 years of living like that until the kids were older, I think he was so beaten down, he didn't care anymore. I suspect he is also afraid of her. She's a head taller and about 100 lbs. heavier than him, and mean in a way that I can't describe. The few times that he gets to talk on the phone, I can hear her screaming at him in the background like a banshee. There are agencies and organizations available for women in abusive situations, but not for men. Chances are if he had ever called the police for help, that they would have arrested him instead of her. It just makes me so grateful that my husband takes after his dad. Well, except for the schizophrenia. He obviously got that from his mom's side of the family.
[/quote]

Actually if a man did call an abuse hotline, he would probably get help, I have seen more and more women get arrested. They are much better about that and realize abuse can happen to anyone. No one deserves to live in hell while still on earth.

[Ice_nine]

[quote name='Tab'le Du'Bah-Rye' timestamp='1295080517' post='2200308']
Your not crazy, i'm still trying to figure it out as well,but i think your right that the foundation(for me anyhow) has to be agape and lasting over a period of time(not just a few dates) and untill the agape relationship is esteblished over a lasting period of time i to than hope to get married and embark on the other side of love eros without forgetting the agape, For possibly agape can survive without eros but eros can never survive without agape.
God Bless
[/quote]

Thank you . I'm surprised you read all of my jibber-jabber (or some of it ) but thanks. It's like I feel content with my sexuality but when it comes to explaining it to other people I feel it's almost impossible just because people's views are so different and I don't feel like the terms we commonly use are adequate.

[quote name='tinytherese' timestamp='1295104843' post='2200335']
Lust is about using another person soley for your own benefit-to consume them, but sexual attraction is about giving and receiving each other as gifts to be treasured.
[/quote]

Again, I get this concept in an abstract sense, but I'm not content with only an abstract understanding. What does this all mean in a [i]practical[/i] sense? Like if someone asked me "are you heterosexual?" I would respond, "what do you mean," and said person would most likely say, "well are you sexually attracted to men?" And that's where I'm asking myself and anybody else who can answer what this general sexual attraction actually means?

Like the friend of the OP, what does she mean that she has never been sexually attracted to anyone? Is that necessarily a bad thing? People in this thread have said that might all change if said person falls in love, and that makes a lot of sense to me because if she (I believe it's a she right?) does fall in love and gets married then sexual attraction is given a fitting outlet/context where it should flourish.

I'm asking outside of the context of marriage, what is the difference between lust and sexual attraction in a practical, concrete sense? How does an unmarried person know the difference between I'm sexually attracted to him/her versus I'm lusting after him/her? Some people may say I'm overanalyzing it but one is sin, the other is natural and ok apparently even outside of marriage, and you're even looked at as a little abnormal (not in a bad way) like the OP's friend if you haven't experienced sexual attraction.

[Anastasia13]

Good questions, Ice_nine.

[Ice_nine]

can sum1 plz help me answer my questionz b/c otherwize i'm gonna have to go out into the big scary world/internets and find the answers myself and i's clearly not capable.

[havok579257]

[quote name='Ice_nine' timestamp='1296541405' post='2207332']
can sum1 plz help me answer my questionz b/c otherwize i'm gonna have to go out into the big scary world/internets and find the answers myself and i's clearly not capable.
[/quote]


sexual attraction is the same thing as attraction to someone's looks.

lust is when you fantasize about doing sexual things to this person and/or sexual things like you using this person for your own sexual pleasures with no regard for them as a person. in your eyes they would be more like a sex object to satisfy your sexual needs.

[Papist]

[quote name='Ice_nine' timestamp='1296541405' post='2207332']
can sum1 plz help me answer my questionz b/c otherwize i'm gonna have to go out into the big scary world/internets and find the answers myself and i's clearly not capable.
[/quote]

[color="black"][font="Arial"][size="2"]Lust, like greed and gluttony, is a sin of excessive affection to physical things. Lust is an excessive affection to sexual activityand the physical pleasure it brings. One of Jesus' greatest concerns from His sermon on the mount (Matthew 5) is that we need to not treat people as objects,and lust does just that. Lust reduces a person from a whole being made in the image of God to a mere object of personal satisfaction. It leads us away from God and hurts our relationships with other people. Lustful relationships can never be enduring, satisfying and healthy.[/size][/font][/color]
[color="black"][font="Arial"] [/font][/color]
[color="black"][font="Arial"][size="2"]It is normal and healthy to be attracted to and appreciative of the opposite sex. Sexual attraction is not lust and is not asin. Recognizing the physical beauty of someone is not synonymous with lust.[/size][/font][/color]

[color="black"][font="Arial"] [/font][/color][font="Arial"][size="2"]Lust is considering and treating others as mere sex objects, not people but rather dispensable things which gratify sexual cravings. Lust is having someone please you, whether in fantasy or reality; it depersonalizes the object of lust. It divides that which God meant to join together: sexual love within marriage. [/size][/font]

Edited February 1, 2011 by Papist