Oh Isn't It Wonderful - Elton John And His Husband

[CatherineM]

[quote name='Mark of the Cross' timestamp='1293969464' post='2195895']

I'm pretty sure God loves you and is working in your house and you are not a family pet.
[/quote]
No, I'm not a pet, but there are those who think my husband is.

[thessalonian]

Your very nieve if you think elton and his buddy aren't being nasty. Even if they are not they are openly promoting and encouraging the gay lifestyle. I will judge either of these as being damnable and an abomination without a bit of problems with my conscience. They are trying to socially engineer the culture that my children are going to grow up in to their way of thinking which in the end will destroy society. I don't need to apologize to you or them or God for judging any of this. God asks us to call sin, sin. Not to deny. I won't say elton and his buddy are going to hell. That is not in my ability to judge but they are in fact sinning in their actions. That I do know.

[Lil Red]

in response to this post, Mark of the Cross,
- A lifestyle of mortal sin around the child

you stated:
Once again how do you know? Have you been in Elton's bedroom or peering in his window. Even if you have, it's not a judgement you have the right to make, you should be more concerned about your own sins.

and I replied:
having homosexual sex or sex outside of marriage is a mortal sin.

that is what we are talking about. i never said you said it wasn't. i think you are skirting the issue of the fact that homosexual sex or sex outside of marriage is a mortal sin and want to affirm other aspects of their 'relationship'.

[Jesus_lol]

[quote name='thessalonian' timestamp='1293996055' post='2195934']
Your very nieve if you think elton and his buddy aren't being nasty. Even if they are not they are openly promoting and encouraging the gay lifestyle. I will judge either of these as being damnable and an abomination without a bit of problems with my conscience. They are trying to socially engineer the culture that my children are going to grow up in to their way of thinking which in the end will destroy society. I don't need to apologize to you or them or God for judging any of this. God asks us to call sin, sin. Not to deny. I won't say elton and his buddy are going to hell. That is not in my ability to judge but they are in fact sinning in their actions. That I do know.
[/quote]

This post is very very bitter. aside from the fact that you misspelled naive, i take issue with you saying they are adopting a child to be "Nasty". what the hell is that about? Adopting children out of a desire to do evil and hurt you and your children? laughable.

[Socrates]

[quote name='Mark of the Cross' timestamp='1293840293' post='2195587']
That quote got up my nose as well. I have chronic and debilitating anxiety as well as depression. In my earlier life I was a candidate for either a mental institution or prison or suicide and I don't have time for the full story now but thought that I should not have children. But God had a different plan for me. My son is an engineer at the Australian synchrotron and my daughter reveals the face of Jesus to the terminally ill at the Royal Melbourne Hospitals oncology department.

The problem with much of the comments on this thread is that people are contaminating the many aspects of Eltons relationship with the sin of sodomy. There are women who live in a loving relationship and rear orphaned children without men and therefore incomplete family, they are call Nuns. What Elton and partner do in their bedroom as well as producing a child by surrogacy is for God to make a judgement about. Their ability or rite to raise children is an unrelated issue which should be judged on different aspects.
Calling adopted children pets is also overstepping the mark, it is an affront to both children and pets. Many 'normal' people treat their children with less dignity than animals and pets are often treated as well as could be expected for children.
[/quote]
God has already made a judgment about "what Elton and their partner do in their bedroom," as well as about unnaturally conceiving children with IVF.

From the Catechism of the Catholic Church: [b]"Basing itself on Sacred Scripture, which presents homosexual acts as acts of grave depravity,141 tradition has always declared that "homosexual acts are intrinsically disordered."142 They are contrary to the natural law. They close the sexual act to the gift of life. They do not proceed from a genuine affective and sexual complementarity. Under no circumstances can they be approved."[/b]

[quote]2376 [b]Techniques that entail the dissociation of husband and wife, by the intrusion of a person other than the couple (donation of sperm or ovum, surrogate uterus), are gravely immoral. These techniques (heterologous artificial insemination and fertilization) infringe the child's right to be born of a father and mother known to him and bound to each other by marriage. They betray the spouses' "right to become a father and a mother only through each other."[/b]166

2377 Techniques involving only the married couple (homologous artificial insemination and fertilization) are perhaps less reprehensible, yet remain morally unacceptable. They dissociate the sexual act from the procreative act. The act which brings the child into existence is no longer an act by which two persons give themselves to one another, but one that "entrusts the life and identity of the embryo into the power of doctors and biologists and establishes the domination of technology over the origin and destiny of the human person. Such a relationship of domination is in itself contrary to the dignity and equality that must be common to parents and children."167 "Under the moral aspect procreation is deprived of its proper perfection when it is not willed as the fruit of the conjugal act, that is to say, of the specific act of the spouses' union . . . . Only respect for the link between the meanings of the conjugal act and respect for the unity of the human being make possible procreation in conformity with the dignity of the person."168 [/quote]

Note there's no exception clause for if you're Sir Elton John.


The Church is also firmly against homosexual "marriages" and "civil unions," and their raising of children.

[quote][b]Homosexual unions are totally lacking in the biological and anthropological elements of marriage and family which would be the basis, on the level of reason, for granting them legal recognition. Such unions are not able to contribute in a proper way to the procreation and survival of the human race. The possibility of using recently discovered methods of artificial reproduction, beyond involving a grave lack of respect for human dignity,(15) does nothing to alter this inadequacy.[/b]

Homosexual unions are also totally lacking in the conjugal dimension, which represents the human and ordered form of sexuality. Sexual relations are human when and insofar as they express and promote the mutual assistance of the sexes in marriage and are open to the transmission of new life.

As experience has shown, the absence of sexual complementarity in these unions creates obstacles in the normal development of children who would be placed in the care of such persons. They would be deprived of the experience of either fatherhood or motherhood. [b]Allowing children to be adopted by persons living in such unions would actually mean doing violence to these children, in the sense that their condition of dependency would be used to place them in an environment that is not conducive to their full human development.[/b][/quote]
From [url="http://www.vatican.va/roman_curia/congregations/cfaith/documents/rc_con_cfaith_doc_20030731_homosexual-unions_en.html"]CONGREGATION FOR THE DOCTRINE OF THE FAITH CONSIDERATIONS REGARDING PROPOSALS TO GIVE LEGAL RECOGNITION TO UNIONS BETWEEN HOMOSEXUAL PERSONS[/url]

If you're going to call yourself Catholic, it might be wise to actually heed what the Church teaches.

[quote name='Mark of the Cross' timestamp='1293913331' post='2195740']
Saint Michael declares he's a catholic!

He apparently knows Elton on a very personal level.

Lets list the issues here: [u]OK let's![/u]

Says who? We are all sinners, Jesus associated with sinners citing the sick are in need of the doctor. God is omnipresent, he's certainly in my home even though I'm a sinner.

Once again how do you know? Have you been in Elton's bedroom or peering in his window. Even if you have, it's not a judgement you have the right to make, you should be more concerned about your own sins.

Maybe! But the child was born and has life therefore it has the Holy Spirit and is a child of God. You have no right to treat it with contempt.

Really! Peoples motivation for having children are none of [i]your[/i] business. When we pick up a child out of the gutter it matters not if it is the child of a prostitute or of a pristine Catholic family.

More???? Do you actually know if sodomy is involved or is that a product of your own imagination? There are heterosexual couples who live in a non sexual relationship and no doubt there are many 'Gay' couples who also have just a love relationship.

I'm glad I'm not a celebrity and having people discussing my personal affairs and making judgements on me which is against God's law.
[/quote]
Yeah, Elton John and his "partner" are just fishing buddies, and totally straight. All that "gay" stuff is just baseless rumors started by those awful meanie right-wing types who like to see babies die in gutters, probably because they're just jealous of Sir Elton's successful career as a recording artist (or they can't stand "Crocodile Rock").

We mustn't judge anybody or anything - except for those hateful anti-gay conservative jerks, because they deserve it, of course.

[Socrates]

[quote name='Hasan' timestamp='1293863726' post='2195657']
I don't think that this qualifies as a Dr. Frankenstein level experiment. As far as I know, at root, we're still talking about an egg being fertilized by a sperm.
[/quote]
[mod]mature content[/mod]
NOT a loving union of man and woman.

Sorry if my description offends anybody, but that's the facts of the matter. Can't even talk here about children saved from dying of starvation in gutters.

Edited January 3, 2011 by Lil Red
mature content

[Winchester]

[quote name='Jesus_lol' timestamp='1293999654' post='2195940']
This post is very very bitter. aside from the fact that you misspelled naive, i take issue with you saying they are adopting a child to be "Nasty". what the hell is that about? Adopting children out of a desire to do evil and hurt you and your children? laughable.
[/quote]
We all know it's a publicity stunt. The woman who is hired to actually raise the child will probably be Catholic.

[Jaime]

[quote name='Socrates' timestamp='1294008482' post='2195991']
[mod]mature content[/mod]
NOT a loving union of man and woman.

Sorry if my description offends anybody, but that's the facts of the matter. Can't even talk here about children saved from dying of starvation in gutters.
[/quote]

Do me a favor and be tastless and graphic somewhere else. There are kids on this phorum

Edited January 3, 2011 by Lil Red

[Socrates]

[quote name='jaime (the artist formerly known as hot stuff)' timestamp='1294012523' post='2196001']
Do me a favor and be tastless and graphic somewhere else. There are kids on this phorum
[/quote]
The mods are more than welcome to "spoiler" out that part if they see fit.

The subject matter here is indeed tasteless and offensive - gravely offensive in fact.

Too many people on here dancing around the reality, and pretending this is all something sweet and loving and beautiful.
(And since all too many "Catholics" ignore whatever Church teaching is posted about the morality of the subject.)

If we were really that concerned about the kiddies on here, we wouldn't allow discussions about the perverted activities of Elton John and his "husband," much less "Catholic" defenses of their immoral activities.

[Jesus_lol]

[quote name='Socrates' timestamp='1294008482' post='2195991']

Sorry if my description offends anybody, but that's the facts of the matter.
[/quote]

I've been warned and suspended for less, though i doubt you will have to worry about that.

[thessalonian]

[quote name='Jesus_lol' timestamp='1293999654' post='2195940']
This post is very very bitter. aside from the fact that you misspelled naive, i take issue with you saying they are adopting a child to be "Nasty". what the hell is that about? Adopting children out of a desire to do evil and hurt you and your children? laughable.
[/quote]

Your reading bitterness in. I'm just being direct. Didn't say they were being nasty about the child. The naivete (did I spell that good enough for you) is about their sxual activity which is nasty, i.e. an abomination, fornication, damnable etc. etc. I don't believe they are doing it out of some desire to do evil but they call good evil and evil good. Get it. Evil is evil whether they think it is or not. I will continue to be direct about it whether you think I am bitter or not.

[Jaime]

[quote name='Socrates' timestamp='1294014079' post='2196009']
The mods are more than welcome to "spoiler" out that part if they see fit.

The subject matter here is indeed tasteless and offensive - gravely offensive in fact.

Too many people on here dancing around the reality, and pretending this is all something sweet and loving and beautiful.
(And since all too many "Catholics" ignore whatever Church teaching is posted about the morality of the subject.)

If we were really that concerned about the kiddies on here, we wouldn't allow discussions about the perverted activities of Elton John and his "husband," much less "Catholic" defenses of their immoral activities.
[/quote]

Obviously you couldn't care less about appropriate content. Personally I think you focus on the gay topics a bit too much Soc.

BTW nobody "Catholic" has defended Elton John in this thread.

[StMichael]

I'd re-read the thread before you declare such.

[quote name='jaime (the artist formerly known as hot stuff)' timestamp='1294015773' post='2196013']

BTW nobody "Catholic" has defended Elton John in this thread.
[/quote]

[Lil Red]

[quote name='jaime (the artist formerly known as hot stuff)' timestamp='1294015773' post='2196013']Obviously you couldn't care less about appropriate content. Personally I think you focus on the gay topics a bit too much Soc. [/quote]
that's not fair.

if someone focused on the abortion topic too much, would you call them out? some people feel passionate about different societal issues, no reason to say something is wrong with that.

[southern california guy]

[quote name='jaime (the artist formerly known as hot stuff)' timestamp='1294012523' post='2196001']
Do me a favor and be tastless and graphic somewhere else. There are kids on this phorum
[/quote]

That's a real problem with discussing morality isn't it? Can homosexuality ever really be debated if you never openly acknowledge what it is?