Oh Isn't It Wonderful - Elton John And His Husband

[StMichael]

Sorry, I said it. Yes a pet. Same goes for Angelina Jolie. It is the latest version of a yorkshire terrier in the hand bag.

They have nothing, Elton and all other gay couples, to offer the child. Will God be present in the home? No. Who will care for this child? Not Elton and his boyfriend. But yipee, they "have" a kid.

[4588686]

[quote name='StMichael' timestamp='1293679666' post='2195099']
Sorry, I said it. Yes a pet. Same goes for Angelina Jolie. It is the latest version of a yorkshire terrier in the hand bag.

They have nothing, Elton and all other gay couples, to offer the child. Will God be present in the home? No. Who will care for this child? Not Elton and his boyfriend. But yipee, they "have" a kid.
[/quote]


You're just saying that because your parents didn't really love you and thought of you as nothing more than a pet for their amusement.



































Wow. What a nasty and unsubstantiated thing to say. I feel like a total prostak. I don't know your parents or your relationship with them. For the petty arrogance that I exemplified in making vindictive, personal accusation against your family, I apologize. I don't know what I was thinking, really.

Edited December 30, 2010 by Hasan

[Jesus_lol]

[quote name='Hasan' timestamp='1293682271' post='2195107']
You're just saying that because your parents didn't really love you and thought of you as nothing more than a pet for their amusement.

Wow. What a nasty and unsubstantiated thing to say. I feel like a total prostak. I don't know your parents or your relationship with them. For the petty arrogance that I exemplified in making vindictive, personal accusation against your family, I apologize. I don't know what I was thinking, really.
[/quote]


HASAN!>!?!>@ how dare you make such a judgemental statement about StMichael's family, going on such thin evidence???! he would never do that to someone!!!


oh wait.

[liseski]

It's not for me to judge. God is the only judge here.

I know people who have been raised by same-sex couples that turned out great; I know people that have been raised in "traditional" homes that were living in a nightmare of poverty, alcoholism, violence and incest.

Without more data on this situation, who knows?

[StMichael]

As always Hassan or Hasan or whatever you got me. My parents made me eat out of bowl on the floor...

I stand by it. Not unsubstantial whatsoever. Quite frankly I see this as heresy.

And I know many who are gay "parents" and they speak of their "children" like I would of my yellow lab.

So feel free to fire away, I stand by statement that these children, who innocently and through no fault of their own are nothing more than pets to these gay couples.

And I reserve the same sentiment for people like Angelina Jolie, Madonna, etc. who adopt or in some cases steal a child from a 3rd world country (like Madonna did), they are not seeking to raise a child, it is a pet.

There is so much wrong here from the celebration of a mortal sin to the social engineering of a child, born on Christmas supposedly. May God Bless this poor child.


[quote name='Hasan' timestamp='1293682271' post='2195107']
You're just saying that because your parents didn't really love you and thought of you as nothing more than a pet for their amusement.



































Wow. What a nasty and unsubstantiated thing to say. I feel like a total prostak. I don't know your parents or your relationship with them. For the petty arrogance that I exemplified in making vindictive, personal accusation against your family, I apologize. I don't know what I was thinking, really.
[/quote]

[liseski]

Do you know what other people's thoughts are? What is in their hearts and minds?

Unless you do, I reserve judgment on your judgment

[StMichael]

Was Christ born into an ideal situation? Was He in a home with plenty of money?

Worldly goods mean nothing. It is the richness in love of the Cross that is for the greater good.

Here is something I think we can both agree on. Will Christ be taught to this child? Will the Bible be present to him? Are these 2 men not only living in the state of a mortal sin, but doing so now in front of an innocent child?

Can you not "judge" a situation as bad? If I killed someone in cold blood, could you not "judge" me as a sinner who committed crimes against humanity?

This and all others, including those who defend this, are crimes against God's law.

[quote name='liseski' timestamp='1293685535' post='2195120']
Do you know what other people's thoughts are? What is in their hearts and minds?

Unless you do, I reserve judgment on your judgment
[/quote]

[dominicansoul]

given what we do know---Elton John is living the homosexual lifestyle and he and his gay lover have procured for themselves a chid to raise. Apparently one of these men's seed was implanted in a woman's egg in order for her to give birth since homosexuality is deviant, and no life comes from homosexual unions.

None of this is natural, none of this is according to God's will, and because of that, I cannot celebrate it. This poor child will be just another addition to Elton's fantasy world. He's living the lie that homosexuality is normal. Homosexual relationships are "normal." There's nothing normal with the way this child came into existence. Men have to stop playing the role of God. He is the creator of Life. Not some modern medical technique that allows children to be born without the sexual act. This is an abomination, and this child needs prayers. I cannot be happy that he/she is born into a "loving" family. Anyone who thinks that is disillusioned...there is nothing normal or "loving" about this situation...

[4588686]

[quote name='StMichael' timestamp='1293685158' post='2195117']
As always Hassan or Hasan or whatever you got me. My parents made me eat out of bowl on the floor...

I stand by it. Not unsubstantial whatsoever. Quite frankly I see this as heresy.

And I know many who are gay "parents" and they speak of their "children" like I would of my yellow lab.

So feel free to fire away, I stand by statement that these children, who innocently and through no fault of their own are nothing more than pets to these gay couples.

And I reserve the same sentiment for people like Angelina Jolie, Madonna, etc. who adopt or in some cases steal a child from a 3rd world country (like Madonna did), they are not seeking to raise a child, it is a pet.

There is so much wrong here from the celebration of a mortal sin to the social engineering of a child, born on Christmas supposedly. May God Bless this poor child.



[/quote]

There is nothing heretical in pointing out that you do not know Elton John and his partner's, or gay couples in general, intentions or how they views their relationship with the child he adopted. Stop trying to use the Church as a shield to protect you from taking flack for your rash, ignorant assumptions.

Unless the Church teaches as a matter of faith and morals that gay couples and celebrities view their adopted children as pets, and it certainly does not, then your claims stand and fall on their own merits (or in this case lack thereof) and the Church affords you no support.

[quote name='StMichael' timestamp='1293686071' post='2195121']
Was Christ born into an ideal situation? Was He in a home with plenty of money?

Worldly goods mean nothing. It is the richness in love of the Cross that is for the greater good.

Here is something I think we can both agree on. Will Christ be taught to this child? Will the Bible be present to him? Are these 2 men not only living in the state of a mortal sin, but doing so now in front of an innocent child?

Can you not "judge" a situation as bad? If I killed someone in cold blood, could you not "judge" me as a sinner who committed crimes against humanity?

This and all others, including those who defend this, are crimes against God's law.


[/quote]

The Church condemns gay adoption. You have made a leap from Church teaching to your own haphazard opinion in claiming that gay couples view their adopted children as pets. No amount of qualifying and obfuscating (trying to intermix your baseless assertions with Church moral teachings) will change that.

[liseski]

I'm not defending it. And I was referring to the comment about the child being "kept as a pet" more than anything else. Awfully harsh thing to say, with no data to back it up. As to your other argument - Christ was born into a house full of love.

As for Christ being taught to this child? Sir Elton is firmly C of E, I believe. Furnish - who knows? He is Canadian like me, so he could be anything or nothing spiritually.

I am not flaming you, btw. I am just engaging in some debate here. I may be more libertarian than most. Will this cause me problems in my chosen church? With the help of my parish priest, I will find out - I am quite sure. I just believe that people must answer for their lives to God, not to me. And I pray for those people, not berate their choices.

[cmotherofpirl]

[quote name='rachael' timestamp='1293674729' post='2195077']
I'm sorry to hear that.

Another reason that a lot of children don't get adopted here is because many people want to adopt younger children. This is why people will go to great lengths such as travel internationally (i.e. China are great examples), to find a younger child. Adoption are not cheap, that's for sure, and many people cannot afford the costs of said adoption. The red tape involved with adoption turns many people away. [/quote]



See that is not actually correct. One of my friends is a adoption caseworker, and my neighbor in her 70s just adopted a child 2 years ago.
Adoptions are actually not expensive if you go thru the state, so money is not a great issue. Most people start out as foster parents, and many adopt these kids when they become available.
The red tape is not that difficult but it does take time: you need a place to live, some sort of income, references, home study etc. My neighor said it was easier to adopt a child than apply for and get a mortgage.

[liseski]

My understanding was that this was a surrogacy contract, not a regular adoption. So although they will have to "adopt" the child, it is likely genetically related to one of them.

[4588686]

[quote name='cmotherofpirl' timestamp='1293687569' post='2195127']
My neighor said it was easier to adopt a child than apply for and get a mortgage.
[/quote]

That's a sorry fact. It speaks a lot to how little society values those kids.

[StMichael]

No details have been released if they "donated" sperm.

Regardless, this is against God's rule and we all need to pray for the child.

EDIT:

According to the Sun, one of the two is the biological father, but will not reveal who. Although Elton wanted to be it.

Link: http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepage/showbiz/bizarre/3323070/Elton-Davids-fatherhood-pact.html

[quote name='liseski' timestamp='1293687726' post='2195129']
My understanding was that this was a surrogacy contract, not a regular adoption. So although they will have to "adopt" the child, it is likely genetically related to one of them.
[/quote]

Edited December 30, 2010 by StMichael

[StMichael]

I appreciate your need to defend them, in however you see fit.

It is against God's rule. It is not a Christian nor Jewish or even muslim situation. It is 2 men playing god. New press release. Elton is spending $70K on the nursery. Haven't you heard? See, a pet.

EDIT:

[b]"Newborn Zachary is expected to be brought up largely by childcare staff who have reportedly been stationed in each of Sir Elton’s homes."
[/b]
LINK: http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/newstopics/celebritynews/8230483/Elton-John-blessed-and-lucky-after-birth-of-baby-Zachary.html

And by the way, I am so honored that you seem to zero in on my posts constantly.

Have a Happy New Year.


[quote name='Hasan' timestamp='1293687189' post='2195124']
There is nothing heretical in pointing out that you do not know Elton John and his partner's, or gay couples in general, intentions or how they views their relationship with the child he adopted. Stop trying to use the Church as a shield to protect you from taking flack for your rash, ignorant assumptions.

Unless the Church teaches as a matter of faith and morals that gay couples and celebrities view their adopted children as pets, and it certainly does not, then your claims stand and fall on their own merits (or in this case lack thereof) and the Church affords you no support.



The Church condemns gay adoption. You have made a leap from Church teaching to your own haphazard opinion in claiming that gay couples view their adopted children as pets. No amount of qualifying and obfuscating (trying to intermix your baseless assertions with Church moral teachings) will change that.
[/quote]

Edited December 30, 2010 by StMichael